Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

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lightning
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by lightning »

Team_Oz wrote:
lightning wrote: The history is on the Board Forum.
Where is this located? I do not seem to be able to locate it...

Thanks - Bill
Bill, if you don't have access to the Board Forum you won't be able to see it I'm afraid.
There was a long discussion on this topic that ended up with a majority vote on combining the overall scores for an overall 1st place in "Scale" and another in "Open"
Not all Board members voted, but there were enough "YES" votes for a majority regardless.
To the best of my knowledge it did not affect the trophies in the individual classes.
I can't see the 2011 NPS scores at present (I assume Randy is in the middle of the archive process) but if Wayne was first in 2610 for 2011, then he should get a 1st place trophy this coming Summer. What he won't get is a 1st in 2610 AND a 1st overall as I believe that spot was taken by Chris Handegard.
If my understanding is incorrect then I'm sure someone will straighten me out!
Keith Jones
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by Yankee Samurai »

Keith,
Thanks for the info, but I disagree in combining the classes as they aren't the same. The only thing they have in common is the word acale.
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by lightning »

Yankee Samurai wrote:Keith,
Thanks for the info, but I disagree in combining the classes as they aren't the same. The only thing they have in common is the word acale.
Randy, SSC, Lim-B and Open B aren't the same either, but we're not hearing complaints on them being combined for an overall "OPEN" 1st place.

Yours was one of the voices and votes that was missing in 2010 when this was discussed.

As I just said in my previous post, I don't believe this has ANY effect on individual Class trophies so I'm not sure what all the fuss is about if we have a single overall trophy for Scale and another one for Open.

To specifically address
Yankee Samurai wrote:I disagree in combining the classes as they aren't the same.
I suggest they are much closer to "the same" than SSC and Open-B.
Also, I have 'planes that I have flown in BOTH scale classes with just a prop and fuel change. They are not SO different. As I said before, individual interpretations can vary, the classes aren't THAT far apart.
The big leveller in my books is that ALL aircraft can be built to 48". That, with the prop and rpm limits, presents a much more level playing field for contests. It reinforces the Pilot skill as being the differentiating factor. Participation in 25/2948 vs. 2610 would suggest that is not an unreasonable observation.

Others, including yourself, are entitled to a different opinion. It's called a "Free World"!
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by wayno »

Keith, My main objection to all this was that I placed first in an official class last year and received a 2nd place trophy for scale overall and no individual trophy for winning my class. When I asked Randy about this he inquired with you and your answer was that there no longer any individual class trophies just one for scale overall and one for open overall. I believe your comment about me REALLY thinking I should get a trophy when there are only 10 pilots confirms this. Now you are saying I WILL get a trophy for winning 2610 and not for scale overall so which is it? I am fine with the fact that in the overall scoring I didn't win and that really doesn't matter with me anyway as these two classes are far from similar. If that is the case, where is last years 2610 trophy. Dave Leffler won 2610 in 2010 and received a 1st place in trophy in 2610 and second overall trophy. And maybe you could enlighten everyone as to why you or whoever decided any change was warranted in the first place and why it wasn't discussed in an open forum. Were their only awards given last year for open overall and scale overall? Wayne Mayo RCCA 880
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by lightning »

Wayne,
I have asked Don Grissom (who organized the trophies last year) for a list of all recipients. I'm hoping this will enable me to remove all confusion. It was my belief that we did not in fact eliminate the individual class trophies, but I need to confirm that.
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by wayno »

And by the way Keith, your statement that these 2 classes are not THAT much different is absurd. I just measured my DBW 1/12 scale Oscar and it comes in at 37" span and less than 3 lbs. A 25/2948 Oscar with a 48" span is almost 25% larger. Combine this with the associated weight gain, more frontal area, more span and then only 14500 rpm clearly suggests otherwise. My ships are all glassed, less than 3 lbs with mini servos and battery packs and my Webras and FX's turn 19000 plus on the ground using 25% fuel thanks to Randy's fine mod work. One of our pilots used one of Chris' kits and even with a hot motor it was no match for any of my ships or any other competitors. I have no problem with you guys flying 25/2948 and I am glad that you all still chose to fly scale. I will say that it looks like the foamies are getting to be much better quality and Dane's Mustang is a great example of this. It seems to me that Keith's lack of success flying 2610 is clouding his judgement. Wayne Mayo RCCA 880
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by lightning »

wayno wrote: It seems to me that Keith's lack of success flying 2610 is clouding his judgement. Wayne Mayo RCCA 880
You didn't need to make this personal! I've already agreed that we are free to fly whatever we choose.
I was trying to build for five classes - you fly two. That's a large difference in effort.
I have chosen to limit my Scale flying to 25/2948, even though I have 'planes that are legal (and have flown) in both classes. One of the reasons I aim for 3# 4oz planes is so they meet the weight criteria for both.
Your comments about hot Webras and FXs that turn 19K on the ground is one of the reasons I don't WANT to fly 2610. I do not have the time to tweak all my engines that way.
Just take a look at 2610 vs 25/2948 participation since 2005. I suggest you will see a trend. (Just FYI, there were 72 2610 pilots in 2003, I believe there were 10 in 2011).
Now how about you let me get the info I need to clarify the award situation?
Keith Jones
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by wayno »

Keith, It's not personal. I appreciate your efforts in clearing this matter with combining classes for awards. I like those trophies on my mantel. Maybe I was just overlooked last year. It seems that all the things that appeal to me about 2610 are the reasons that you felt it was not your game. I love to compete with these planes and have stuck with it for many years. I realize that I am in the minority as far as participation goes and this class allows me to incorporate some of the skills I learned building and racing Q-500 and F-1. I would like to know why there was so much participation in 2003 and so little now? I know from experience that participation in activities seems to wane with age and maybe the fact that there was an easier, less expensive way to get the same thrill had something to do with it as well. 2610 is like a high stakes video game and the fact that these planes are so fast and sound so good along with the chance of destroying a lot of hard work and money makes it that much sweeter when you win.Wayne Mayo RCCA 880
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by The End »

They are two different classes because............. they are different, and significant enough that the two exist. We tried to make one class though..

Just reading this thread got me going all over again...... the scale wars...

It all started because someone thought the planes were ugly....

Then they were too fast......

Then there were the "Oddballs that didn't exist in WWII" that were winning all the time.... not highly recognizable as WWII aircraft

So what do we have today in 25/29/48?

A fair amount of the planes are not that good looking, really they aren't. Flying watermelons we call them..... look at the green tape jobs.. many planes DO look good, but MANY planes DID look good back then too! (self declaration, the Manta was a grey tape job as it was an experiment and it too had a watermelon effect to it.)

Uh, yes they are slower with the prop and rpm limit... prop good idea, rpm limit not a good idea NOT FUN if you are at ALTITUDE.... but fly well enough in most everywhere else... Sorry guys...if you live at elevation... same might go for SSC ?

And the number one burn, "Oddballs.." The Skyraider, A17, and whatever the good ole boys agreed on, and .... oh I forgot, they ARE 2948 legit.. I guess nobody put any thought into the whole process, that anyone would clue in on the fact that selective oddballs were now IN and WINNING.

Ya know, I looked back at old photos and it was pretty darn good. But, rather than work out some details to make it just a tweak better for all, too many folks had to try to KILL scale to get their precious 2548 up and going.

The West Coast version of scale works for everyone, is a bit slower without the mousse cans, and the planes are all competitively bounded due to the wingspan criteria, and prop criteria. Basically 2610 without mousse cans, but we do have prop criteria. Faster than 2548, slower than 2610... win win.

I've been eyeballing my scale projects, and I sure do miss it. But, I don't miss the BS that the forums and debates created.

Wayne, you deserve that trophy. Nothing else needs to be said beyond that.
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Re: Combining 2548 and 2610 for awards trophies

Post by boiler »

He should have it any day now if he doesn't already have it. They shipped last week.
Bob (Longhaul) Loescher
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Bring those planes in closer where I can see them.
[url=http://www.rccombat.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11380][img]http://www.rccombat.net/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=11381[/img][/url]
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