Forestry tape all around

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Alex Treneff
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by lightning</i>
<br />Alex, I agree on the Tanglefoot - I don't use it but I still get it all over my plane, usually from one of the Gilkey's. And I hate the stuff with a passion. The good news is that some people are having difficulty finding it in the caulking gun type tubes.


The whole discussion of crepe vs. flagging tape comes about when one individual scoops all the streamers in the first 30 seconds of a round and then evades everyone else for the next 4 1/2 minutes. The rationale behind the flagging tape was to have more targets available for longer.
Perhaps banning sticky stuff would have a similar effect.
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How many prop cuts do you see usually? No sticky = a lot more targets for a lot longer = a lot more chasing = a lot more fun! [;)]
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

I too hate tanglefoot but have not found an easier alternative. I still get it all over myself, arm and leg hair is especially fun, but using blue masking tape on the LE which enables the tanglefoot to be peeled off is a pretty good system (thanks to Bob Loescher for teaching me this!). For those who have missed this in the past, tanglefoot bird repellent (clear stuff)is dissolved by vegetable oil (the brown castor-based stuff is dissolved with mineral spirits, not sure if veg oil will work on that), and the resulting film can then be cleaned up with normal spray cleaners, if you are really a neat freak. I keep the vegetable oil in an old water bottle, the ones with the pop-up top. Squirt some in a rag (paper towel does not work well, i use old rags, tshirts, etc) and wipe it all over the tanglefoot, at first it seems to do nothing and then it will dissolve.

I know somebody who has a tendency to scoop up all the streamers and then fly evasive for the rest of the heat. WHich would be a whole lot more boring for the other competitors if the streamers were not all stuck to his wing with tanglefoot. If it were forestry tape, that would indeed happen less. I have been onboard with Aaron's suggestion from the start. People don't want to drop crepe because it makes for big scores, which is indeed fun, but it seems more fun when more people are still towing targets after 3 or 4 minutes. With crepe, it is the unusual heat where streamers are intact after that time. Forestry tape is a double-equalizer, not only is it more difficult (but not impossible) to get wing cuts, but also when you get a prop cut you have a good change of strangling your engine, esp. in SSC.

Tanglefoot will not go away with forestry tape, if anything, you need to put it on THICKER!!!!! Unless you outlaw it.

We were practicing yesterday with forestry tape. It will cut through wing LEs like crazy. In the old days when people had armored LEs that would not have happened, many are now using softer/EPP LEs and forstry tape will cut those to ribbons, and not still not break.

The forestry tape idea has a lot of merit but it's not a panacea!

The Russians use sandpaper, about 1/4 inch wide (maybe 1/2, don't remember for sure). It looks like it would do nothing yet it cuts the tough streamer material they use like a sickle! but it does not stick to the wings. It's not messy, you can stick it on once and never have to deal with it again, and it's effective. But if one guy scuts everyone in the first minute, bye bye targets. Which is actually an ADVANTAGE for the good fliers. I'd prefer a system that tends to equalize for the weaker fliers.
Rabbit Leader
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

As far as sticky stuff goes, either ban ALL of it, Tanglefoot, sticky tape, sandpaper, etc, or allow all of it. Some people don't have a problem with sticky stuff, some do. My wife happens to believe that the whole concept of sticky/rough/sticky tape leading edges tends to take some of the skill out of the game, she thinks it should be prop cuts, and whatever luck you have, only.

I'll say this much..in 3696, we have NOTHING on the leading edge, and though sometimes you get a little frustrated, when you get a cut, you darn sure know it, there's no guessing..and the "drapes" actually don't frustrate me too much, as at least I know I'm in the ballpark.
mad
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Post by mad »

If you got rid of the STUFF, you would be amazed how quick the exaust oils would spread from wingtip to wingtip
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

Right on Michael. The electric guys would have a huge disadvantage.[;)]
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o1moregil
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Post by o1moregil »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by boiler</i>
<br />Right on Michael. The electric guys would have a huge disadvantage.[;)]
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till Lee, Drew and the other Electron guys find a way to magnetically catch em on there wings with an electromagnetic force[:p]
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o1moregil
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Post by o1moregil »

Like static or some thing
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by o1moregil</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by boiler</i>
<br />Right on Michael. The electric guys would have a huge disadvantage.[;)]
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till Lee, Drew and the other Electron guys find a way to magnetically catch em on there wings with an electromagnetic force[:p]
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Already working on it. Actually we have been using 2 face tape with great (clean) results
Alex Treneff
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sgilkey</i>
<br />We were practicing yesterday with forestry tape. It will cut through wing LEs like crazy. In the old days when people had armored LEs that would not have happened, many are now using softer/EPP LEs and forstry tape will cut those to ribbons, and not still not break.
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Scott, limiting our ideas to what works with today's technology is a limiting factor. It's like if Microsoft in 2002 had said "Let's not create Windows Vista since today's computers can't handle it."

The Battle Axe, for example, already effectively incorporates an armored leading edge, so it is very doable. Whatever modifications to aircraft would be required for whatever solution we come up with, it is just the cost of progress.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Rabbit Leader</i>
<br />As far as sticky stuff goes, either ban ALL of it, Tanglefoot, sticky tape, sandpaper, etc, or allow all of it. Some people don't have a problem with sticky stuff, some do. My wife happens to believe that the whole concept of sticky/rough/sticky tape leading edges tends to take some of the skill out of the game, she thinks it should be prop cuts, and whatever luck you have, only.

I'll say this much..in 3696, we have NOTHING on the leading edge, and though sometimes you get a little frustrated, when you get a cut, you darn sure know it, there's no guessing..and the "drapes" actually don't frustrate me too much, as at least I know I'm in the ballpark.
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<font size="2">The essence of no sticky!
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mad</i>
<br />If you got rid of the STUFF, you would be amazed how quick the exaust oils would spread from wingtip to wingtip
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<font size="2">Even though the exhaust oil won't actually cut a streamer, if it did it would just help equalize the IC's with the electrics' restart-in-the-air ability. Looking at it now, it turns into another benefit for the class.
</font id="size2">
<font size="2">
Getting rid of all sticky and keeping the dennecrepe really is the simplest, most effective solution. Oh, and we (like most) can't use something that doesn't biodegradable very rapidly at our field, so forestry tape isn't practical.

No Sticky + Dennecrepe = Good Combat! [:)]
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ZenManiac
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Post by ZenManiac »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">How many prop cuts do you see usually? No sticky = a lot more targets for a lot longer = a lot more chasing = a lot more fun! [;)]
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<font size="2">I'm not sure of that. Although the primary streamers may last a little longer, there will not be the opportunity for secondary streamers, since those will float to the ground instead of sticking to wingtips and making additional targets.</font id="size2">
AIM
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Post by AIM »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Tim Treneff</i>
<br />I just bought a new batch for the Mid-America contest (to gaurentee no rain) and the new batch has way less fiber than the stuff I bought last year.
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Does it appear to be weaker (easier to cut) My stuff is a year old. I have not seen the new stuff.
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Post by AIM »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sgilkey</i>
<br />
We were practicing yesterday with forestry tape. It will cut through wing LEs like crazy. In the old days when people had armored LEs that would not have happened, many are now using softer/EPP LEs and forstry tape will cut those to ribbons, and not still not break.

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Are we certain it wasn't the string doing the slicing?
Wouldn't sandpaper along the leading edge effectively solve this problem plus have the advantage of no sticky mess?
AIM
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Post by AIM »

Let's not forget the damp weather durability of forestry tape which is a big advantage also. Plus the faster OpenB guys are already having some troubles keeping crepe from just tearing loose. As these planes will undoubtedly get faster this will become a greater problem with crepe.
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

Alex, you miss my point, it has nothing to do with limiting to today's technology or the superiority of the Batttle Axe, it's just a comment/warning for people to be aware of. I don't much care what other people do with their LEs, i'm just giving a heads-up.

Aaron, trust me, the forestry tape will cut a wing up pretty good. Until it gets to something hard, like the spar, then it will stop. It's not like it will saw a wing in half, but it can cleave the LE nicely. String might do it too, but if you are using the "correct" string it is more breakable than the tape.
Hooter
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Post by Hooter »

Sorry Alex...

But "No Sticky + Dennecrape = MORE MIDAIRS!!!!

We have seen this in our club flying, when you have to depend
on prop cuts...the mid airs go up!!

All these guys that travel around all over the country to compete, are
very serious about winning!!!! They will do what it takes to win!!!!

So if you put this down to the prop cut level, these guys are going to go home with two or three trashed planes, then they are going to think twice about if they are travel 400 or 500 miles to the next event!!
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