Forestry tape all around
Moderator: hbartel
Forestry tape all around
Here's a thought. Why not use forestry tape instead of crepe.
We had an event a few weeks ago that the weather made us use forestry tape for the entire weekend and quite honestly I loved it. Sure it's harder to cut but at the end of most heats there were still multiple streamers left to chase. Using crepe it seems that after about the first minute you were down to one or two planes with streamers and everyone was chasing that one guy.
I don't think it would work for 1/2A but everything else I think would be great. I know one guy said that he scored his best ever in SSC using tape.
Think about it. No worries about the weather. Use less due to just tying a piece back on. More streamer stays up longer. You would only have to stock one type.
Now before all you hotdogs start whining about the scores just think about this. If we used tape nationwide the scores would still be accurate, just lower.
Everyone has simply gotten used to 5,6,700 point rounds. You would just have to get used to 2 and 300 point rounds.
My biggest thought towards this is the fact that more streamer stays up longer. More targets = more fun.
We had an event a few weeks ago that the weather made us use forestry tape for the entire weekend and quite honestly I loved it. Sure it's harder to cut but at the end of most heats there were still multiple streamers left to chase. Using crepe it seems that after about the first minute you were down to one or two planes with streamers and everyone was chasing that one guy.
I don't think it would work for 1/2A but everything else I think would be great. I know one guy said that he scored his best ever in SSC using tape.
Think about it. No worries about the weather. Use less due to just tying a piece back on. More streamer stays up longer. You would only have to stock one type.
Now before all you hotdogs start whining about the scores just think about this. If we used tape nationwide the scores would still be accurate, just lower.
Everyone has simply gotten used to 5,6,700 point rounds. You would just have to get used to 2 and 300 point rounds.
My biggest thought towards this is the fact that more streamer stays up longer. More targets = more fun.
I like this idea in a lot of ways. the one drawback is you do get a lot of drapes, which seems to "artificially" lower scores. however everybody suffers somewhat equally with that, and it would tend to reduce the advantage of long wings which would be fine by me. one other disadvantage is it tends to strangle engines a bit more, especially in SSC. I actually had an engine ruined by forestry tape this year, it got in BEHIND the prop driver and BEHIND the front bearing shield and got all ingested in the balls and bearing retainer of the front bearing! this apparently locked up the front bearing and for reasons that are not clear to me, the crank proceeded to gall itself to the crankcase just behind the front bearing. but that's a one-time incident over many heats using forestry tape. one final disadvantage it that the colors of forestry tape are not as visible as the black.
offsetting this are numerous advantages as you mention- easy reuse of streamers, more targets in the air for the whole heat, more "honest" hard/prop cuts, etc.
I could go either way on this but would probably have a preference for all forestry, all the time. I'll ask Brian his pref and post them later.
offsetting this are numerous advantages as you mention- easy reuse of streamers, more targets in the air for the whole heat, more "honest" hard/prop cuts, etc.
I could go either way on this but would probably have a preference for all forestry, all the time. I'll ask Brian his pref and post them later.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by sgilkey</i>
<br /> Snip...
I could go either way ....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We have often thought that. [;)] I looked at my scores from the Hillside event all flown with FT and other events flown with crepe, my scores did not see much change. I think the # of drapes are much higher, I saw more, but they are offset by more streamers to chase. To me its an even swap that made the event more fun as there were fewer rounds with one or no targets. I like to practice with the tape, in small groups we get more combat time in as well with the FT.
I think scores may have been higher because more people had money streamer points as well. Need to look at that and see if it is the case and if that is a good thing.
<br /> Snip...
I could go either way ....
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
We have often thought that. [;)] I looked at my scores from the Hillside event all flown with FT and other events flown with crepe, my scores did not see much change. I think the # of drapes are much higher, I saw more, but they are offset by more streamers to chase. To me its an even swap that made the event more fun as there were fewer rounds with one or no targets. I like to practice with the tape, in small groups we get more combat time in as well with the FT.
I think scores may have been higher because more people had money streamer points as well. Need to look at that and see if it is the case and if that is a good thing.
We always use forestry tape for practice because it lasts so much longer. With SSC and 1/2 A planes we have had some hilarious tie ups with the planes getting tied to each other and both going down. We also have the Fredricks flip move which is a lot of fun. When your chasing someone low and get under their streamer and pull up dragging the streamer over your wing and the other guy gets pointed nose down real fast and hit the deck!
I think this discussion has been had before and the rules actually call for crepe unless weather conditions don't allow it and the CD makes a decision to use something else. A rules change proposal would probably be needed.
As the guy who buys crepe at 1,000$ per crack I would like to know well in advance so I don't get stuck with 1,000 worth of worthless streamers!
I think this discussion has been had before and the rules actually call for crepe unless weather conditions don't allow it and the CD makes a decision to use something else. A rules change proposal would probably be needed.
As the guy who buys crepe at 1,000$ per crack I would like to know well in advance so I don't get stuck with 1,000 worth of worthless streamers!
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Mike,
The rules recommend crepe and kite string.
I think a much simpler and much more user-friendly approach to this problem would be to use crepe and simply disalow the use of the sticky substances (tanglefoot, ect) on the wing LE. This would have the same reducing effect on drapes that using tougher streamers would, with all the positives of not gunking up the wing.
The rules recommend crepe and kite string.
I think a much simpler and much more user-friendly approach to this problem would be to use crepe and simply disalow the use of the sticky substances (tanglefoot, ect) on the wing LE. This would have the same reducing effect on drapes that using tougher streamers would, with all the positives of not gunking up the wing.
Alex
To simply not use sticky and run crepe would not take advantage of the other benifits of FT. Wet weather durability, ability to tie more on, even damp weather discourages the use of crepe in the faster classes, needing to only worry about one type of streamer for any conditions, etc. I despise sticky almost as much as warm beer but I would rather use it and FT than crepe and no sticky.
To comment on Mikes post. I'm not shooting for a rule change here just yet. I just wanted to explore peoples thoughts towards this possibility. If there is a definate leaning towards this though I wouldn't rush out and stock up on crepe. I for one would be willing to start right off the bat in 07 with FT.
To simply not use sticky and run crepe would not take advantage of the other benifits of FT. Wet weather durability, ability to tie more on, even damp weather discourages the use of crepe in the faster classes, needing to only worry about one type of streamer for any conditions, etc. I despise sticky almost as much as warm beer but I would rather use it and FT than crepe and no sticky.
To comment on Mikes post. I'm not shooting for a rule change here just yet. I just wanted to explore peoples thoughts towards this possibility. If there is a definate leaning towards this though I wouldn't rush out and stock up on crepe. I for one would be willing to start right off the bat in 07 with FT.
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by AIM</i>
<br />snip............To comment on Mikes post. I'm not shooting for a rule change here just yet. I just wanted to explore peoples thoughts towards this possibility. If there is a definate leaning towards this though I wouldn't rush out and stock up on crepe. I for one would be willing to start right off the bat in 07 with FT.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Aaron, that would need a rules change. Not gonna happen for 2007. If you get lots of support it could happen for 2008 if it gores through the usual rules cycle. I think this calls for proposed changes to be drafted by July or so. Boiler, feel free to drop in and clarify that.
(Edit for spelling!)
<br />snip............To comment on Mikes post. I'm not shooting for a rule change here just yet. I just wanted to explore peoples thoughts towards this possibility. If there is a definate leaning towards this though I wouldn't rush out and stock up on crepe. I for one would be willing to start right off the bat in 07 with FT.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Aaron, that would need a rules change. Not gonna happen for 2007. If you get lots of support it could happen for 2008 if it gores through the usual rules cycle. I think this calls for proposed changes to be drafted by July or so. Boiler, feel free to drop in and clarify that.
(Edit for spelling!)
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Lightning, as I read it a rules change proposal for an AMA class can be submitted from Jan 1-Sept 30 of 2007. If it clears all hurdles for 2007 counter proposals can be submitted in 2008. If it survives, then it becomes a rule Jan 1 of 2009. The process can be quicker for provisional events but the thought proposed was for all combat. Please feel free to correct me Ed or Lou in case I read it wrong.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by boiler</i>
<br />Alex, in the AMA rules it says streamer material not meeting the prescribed material can be used <i>if weather conditions dictate</i>.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From Open Rules:
<i>4.7 Streamers and string are provided by the CD to ensure uniformity. Crepe paper and cotton string are recommended. </i>
They also say that he may use whatever material he wants, and only provide a recommendation for using crepe. But I like the crepe, so it does not really matter to me![:)]
Wouldn't always using forestry tape increase the load on the CD, since most CDs buy their crepe streamers pre-rolled and just have some tape streamers as backup?
<br />Alex, in the AMA rules it says streamer material not meeting the prescribed material can be used <i>if weather conditions dictate</i>.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
From Open Rules:
<i>4.7 Streamers and string are provided by the CD to ensure uniformity. Crepe paper and cotton string are recommended. </i>
They also say that he may use whatever material he wants, and only provide a recommendation for using crepe. But I like the crepe, so it does not really matter to me![:)]
Wouldn't always using forestry tape increase the load on the CD, since most CDs buy their crepe streamers pre-rolled and just have some tape streamers as backup?