Forestry tape for all

Any Open Class topic can be discussed here. Come on in and share your knowledge or ask a question. Best place on the Net to hang your hat on a windy day!

Moderator: hbartel

AIM
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:22 am
Location: Montpelier, Ohio

Forestry tape for all

Post by AIM »

Several months back I started a thread on this topic and finished saying I was ready to propose an official change. Shortly after an explosion of arguements went off about this and that so I dropped it for the time being. Now I believe that things are settling down so I would like to once again discuss this topic.

Why not change to Forestry tape nationwide?
Over and over I hear about all the streamers being gone in the first 60 seconds and for the rest of the heat we all are chasin 6 inch shreds.
I have seen this multiple times myself.
FT is much harder to cut which would result in lower scores but if it was done nationwide it would still produce the best scores for the best pilots.

Think about it.
All weather durability.
Equal cutting ability regardless of weather.
Stocking only one kind of material.
More streamer to chase later in the round.
Ability to tie on, so less streamer used.

If you wanna read some more opinions just read through the previous thread on this topic.
http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12277

I realize that the current RCP is over but I don't see why we can't hash this out and if the majority likes it do a GENTLEMAN'S agreement for the 09 season.
Alex Treneff
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Alex Treneff »

Aaron,

Reasons would include:

1) Forestry tape is not black. Pilots and CD's have repeatedly stated their preference for black.
2) Forestry tape is near impossible to cut
3) Using Forestry tape doesn't get rid of sticky stuff
4) Forestry tape doesn't biodegrade as quickly - a real problem for some events
5) Forestry tape won't get rid of the furball - "no sticky" would
6) Forestry tape is more expensive, and most contests can't handle that - streamers are already a huge expense as-is.
7) It's a bad idea to specify exactly what may be used. What if the "forestry tape", the only legal material, becomes unavailable or back-ordered?


How about no sticky instead? Come to think of it, this could be passed for SSC in the mid-year rule cycle.
AIM
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:22 am
Location: Montpelier, Ohio

Post by AIM »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Alex Treneff</i>
<br />Aaron,

Reasons would include:

1) Forestry tape is not black. Pilots and CD's have repeatedly stated their preference for black.
2) Forestry tape is near impossible to cut
3) Using Forestry tape doesn't get rid of sticky stuff
4) Forestry tape doesn't biodegrade as quickly - a real problem for some events
5) Forestry tape won't get rid of the furball - "no sticky" would
6) Forestry tape is more expensive, and most contests can't handle that - streamers are already a huge expense as-is.
7) It's a bad idea to specify exactly what may be used. What if the "forestry tape", the only legal material, becomes unavailable or back-ordered?


How about no sticky instead? Come to think of it, this could be passed for SSC in the mid-year rule cycle.


<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
No it's not black but red isn't hard to see either.

the term "near impossible" is an over statement.

Nope it doesn't get rid of sticky.

Nope it doesn't biodegrade as quickly but it still does in a fairly short period of time.

I don't think ANYTHING is gonna get rid of the furball.

If you'll look you will see that FT is actually cheaper than crepe.
FT $1.65 for 12+ rolls 250' long = $0.21 per 30'
crepe $2.75 per roll 300' long = $0.28 per 30'
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/produ ... sp?id=1136

What if the same happened to dennecrepe. I don't know where else to get it but from Mike.
Alex Treneff
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by AIM</i>
<br />If you'll look you will see that FT is actually cheaper than crepe.
FT $1.65 for 12+ rolls 250' long = $0.21 per 30'
crepe $2.75 per roll 300' long = $0.28 per 30'
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/produ ... sp?id=1136

What if the same happened to dennecrepe. I don't know where else to get it but from Mike.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aaron, $2.75 is the price to buy retail from Mike. But he's getting it cheaper than than that. And it is because of this that he is able to sell rolled streamers for $.45.

If dennecrepe became unavailable? Then the CD's could use something else since they're not locked in by the rules. For our first Mid-America meet we used Hobby Lobby Party Crepe. Streamers are best left up to the CD.
User avatar
cshepherd
Posts: 1006
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 2:20 pm
Location: USA

Post by cshepherd »

Comparing apples to oranges...

Pre-rolled vs roll your own.

Mike's prerolled streamers are .45 per 30'

FT uncut and unrolled streamers vary from .21 to .28 per 30'

And for those looking for Black FT:

https://www.utilityflagsandmore.com/Mer ... ry_Code=FT

Click on the drop window and by Golly.... Black is listed. Only draw back is you need to order in 100 roll cases.

As far as getting rid of sticky, I agree the GOOEY version needs to go! You want sticky... use the double sided carpet tape or like equiv on your wings.
User avatar
lightning
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:53 pm
Location: USA

Post by lightning »

My 2¢!
I would not have a problem if all contests used FT. At least the streamers would last more than 30 seconds. Those of us who end up flying in damp/humid conditions would not have to make a decision on which tape to use, and if using FT, put the pilots at a scoring disadvantage for NPS purposes.
I'm all for banning the gooey sticky stuff too (tanglefoot etc). I don't use it but it gets EVERYWHERE! (Kirk and Scott, as the folks who appear to be the heaviest users I fly against, are you listening?).
So, a thought, as FT does not break when snagged, it really needs a prop cut, does sticky stuff make a difference anyway? (I do recognize this does not apply when the string breaks).
User avatar
cshepherd
Posts: 1006
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 2:20 pm
Location: USA

Post by cshepherd »

I remember back to the good old days when I would put a light coat of epoxy on the leading edge and then sprinkle some sand on.... [:D]
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

Good find on the black flagging tape! Would need to get some and see what it is like. To bad you need to order 100! I checked with the other supplier of Forestry tape and they went to the manufactures and told me they could not get black!

Dennecrepe is sold basicaly at cost. Especially if anything is added for my time, trouble and money tied up in streamer material! Thanks to Michael DeWoody finding cheap labor the pre-rolled can be done for a reasonable cost.

The Europeans cut the flagging tape in half. Makes it real cheap! I was planning on making splitting stand available but so far I haven't found the time!
sgilkey
Posts: 2351
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:26 am

Post by sgilkey »

the nice thing about FT is you don't need to preroll! you can just measure, cut, and leave it laying on the ground. moisture doesn't hurt it. I have not checked but I bet it stretches less than DC too. black FT would be an excellent find. None of the FT colors are as good as black. slitting it would make it easier to cut and a reasonable compromise between DC and FT. If someone wanted to outlaw sticky i'd be fine with it. I like the russian approach of sandpaper 10mm wide and max 48 inches (i think) span. solves a lot of problems, reduces the advanatage of span, reduces mess. but they don't get klingons like we do, and klingons are legitimate targets. targets=fun. this discussion is like arguing chicken or the egg. there is never going to be an optimal solution. if i could pick, i'd do sandpaper and black FT!!!
User avatar
cshepherd
Posts: 1006
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2001 2:20 pm
Location: USA

Post by cshepherd »

I thought a klingon was a lifeform from Star Trek?

Someone should just buy a case, it is only 89.00 plus shipping. If it works out, you have a potential for 300 streamers.
AIM
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:22 am
Location: Montpelier, Ohio

Post by AIM »

Nice find Chris.
I called the place and spoke to a woman named Patricia.
She says she can send me a short sample piece to look at.
If I think it's a viable alternative I am willing to buy a case and send a roll to anyone interested enough to give it an HONEST consideration.
I realize that our current FT has some drawbacks but so far no one has come up with an alternate material and quite frankly I just believe that dennecrepe has ENTIRELY to many shortcomings and switching to FT or similar would be a great move.

PS. this stuff figures out to about $0.31 per streamer.
Due to the fact that it is 1" wide maybe splitting it is an option.
$0.16 per streamer would be great.
Alex Treneff
Posts: 941
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:00 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by AIM</i>
<br />PS. this stuff figures out to about $0.31 per streamer.
Due to the fact that it is 1" wide maybe splitting it is an option.
$0.16 per streamer would be great.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Aaron, the forestry tape stuff might work in its native 1" width, but as to splitting, note section 4.7 of Open Rules:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4.7 Streamers and string are provided by the CD to ensure uniformity. Crepe paper and cotton string are recommended. Streamers will be thirty (30) feet long and <b>no less than five-eighths (5/8) inches wide and no more than one (1) inch wide</b>, attached to the model by a cotton string extending at least five (5') feet from the tail of the model. (At the discretion of the Contest Director, alternate streamer materials not meeting these specifications may be used if weather conditions prevent the use of standard streamer material).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Vapor52
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:56 am

Post by Vapor52 »

We could get a waiver :)
User avatar
lightning
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2003 10:53 pm
Location: USA

Post by lightning »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Vapor52</i>
<br />We could get a waiver :)
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Ahhh, but not for the NATS!!
(Right Ed?)
AIM
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:22 am
Location: Montpelier, Ohio

Post by AIM »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Alex Treneff</i>
Aaron, the forestry tape stuff might work in its native 1" width, but as to splitting, note section 4.7 of Open Rules:

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">4.7 Streamers and string are provided by the CD to ensure uniformity. Crepe paper and cotton string are recommended. Streamers will be thirty (30) feet long and <b>no less than five-eighths (5/8) inches wide and no more than one (1) inch wide</b>, attached to the model by a cotton string extending at least five (5') feet from the tail of the model. (At the discretion of the Contest Director, alternate streamer materials not meeting these specifications may be used if weather conditions prevent the use of standard streamer material).<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Man I know what the rules say!
What I am trying to say is that crepe is just not the right material!

The "STANDARD STREAMER MATERIAL" is not adequate.

You may like chasing 6" shreds after the first 60 seconds but I for one do not.

Over and over I have watched the bulk of targets get pulled in the first minute or two and all that is left is one or two guys with the shreds being chased by the rest of the pack for the last few minutes.

Maybe in the beginning when planes and tech was in it's infancy, crepe was perfect. Now I think that pilot skill, speed, cutting swath, etc has outdated crepe and a new material is in order.
Post Reply