What is with the obsession with power?

Any Open Class topic can be discussed here. Come on in and share your knowledge or ask a question. Best place on the Net to hang your hat on a windy day!

Moderator: hbartel

TheKid
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

What is with the obsession with power?

Post by TheKid »

I've been pondering this for a while, what is with everyone's yearning for power? What is it about those million rpms that draws us like a moth to a light? Not that i wouldn't mind a thousand horsepower (or a few kilowatts [:D]) but why do we feel the need to have it?

I guess thats what makes us what we are, combat pilots!!! To quote a great movie (Shooter starring mark wahlberg, if you haven't seen it, you should), "slow is smooth, and smooth is fast!!." and have we all forgotten of the all so famous tortoise?

So what is it that gives our need for speed? is it just the ultimate adrenaline rush of the propellor screaming will its tips are ripped off at mach numbers? Has anyone noticed a markable increase in their combat ability when upgrading to not just more power, but obscene?
Bo_Connolly
Posts: 225
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:08 pm
Location: USA

Post by Bo_Connolly »

Hey Brian:

I think there is something inherently "Male" about Speed and the Need To Go Fast...

Each Generation defines their benchmarks, only to have the Younger Crowd redefine it for them. Modern technology, of course, allows us to easily go faster in some areas that years ago, were impossible.

We can make things with computers that are essentially, unflyable (is that a word?) by Man alone, yet joined up with the right computerized aviation controls and your off to Mach 2 or whatever you push it to, until Man (his body) will simply pass out under the crushing pressure of his speed.

There also something in "Our Culture" which tells us "Bigger, Better, Faster, Stronger" Usually, this is just to get you to buy something that you think will make you "Look Cool" [8D]

Power and Speed are just Man playing with the "Next Bigger Stick" that seems to be a part of us all...

Speed can be good if you can put it to good use.
Uncontrolled Speed Kills...

Take Care,
crash_out
Posts: 290
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 5:55 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by crash_out »

I come from a hot rod background, and the uncontested cure for any problem in a car is "add 100 more horsepower." Car doesn't brake quick enough? Add another 100 horsepower. Doesn't handle well enough? 100 more horsepower will fix that.

It is cultural, however. Just look at anyone with a 12x12 living room and a 6 foot television, or if you live in the south, how many people drive big, jacked up 4 wheel drives with gas sucking v-8's and complain about the price of fuel. If a little of one thing is good, then more must be better.

As far as planes go, I've discovered the limitations. Sure, I can put 200 watts into a 12 ounce foamy plane, but it's not going to survive very long. The problem lies with making up for deficent areas. Most people believe that if they eek out 100 more rpm in the air, that'll make up for a lack of design or skill. A good place to see that not working is in autocross-it's usually the most balanced cars that consistently win.

Another is the difference I've found in props. When I flew glow, most of what I had was four stroke powered. I discovered that even though an APC prop turned nearly 1000 rpm faster than a comparable MAS K-series, it never could make as much thrust. So in that instance, even though the MAS was spinning slower, it fulfilled my preset expectations better. But the APC spun faster, right? So it should have been better, right?

In dealing with cars, motorycles, and toy airplanes, I've came to the conclusion I only need as much power and speed as it takes to accomplish a given task. There is a limit to man and machinery, and finding the happy medium is what it's all about. That's what I like about the new provisional classes with rpm and airframe limitations. Even though everyone is hard at work trying to come up with an airframe design, or power/fuel system, or whatever that will give them the advantage, in the end, skill is going to win it.
User avatar
o1moregil
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:12 pm
Location: Midland Texas

Post by o1moregil »

Its not an obsession It's an Addiction, ones that fast plane you built cures that urge for speed, you always feel you need more, and then more.........
User avatar
boiler
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:16 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by boiler »

Limited B is a good event that is equal to Open B about 4 years ago. You have unlimited power (unlike SSC) but you have uniform restrictions to maintain a competitive playing field. Some of the new open planes can't keep a streamer for more than 30 seconds. Where is the fun in flying defensivly there? If everyone goes that route, there will be no targets after 30 seconds. What does everyone do then??? Fly fast and turn left???
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

Certainly a problem with Open events. If it's legal and possible someone will figure out how to get even more. In combat it's either speed or better turning ability. If you can make good use of it or not is another question. If your the slow guy and everyone else is fast your at a distinct disadvantage. If your really fast and everyone else is slow you may or may not be able to score better depending on your ability and fast reflexes. Even if you can't score it's more fun to be the fast guy swiping and swatting at the slow guy than being the target drone! Usually the slow guys either go with the latest technology and speed up to compete or quit or just live with the speed they have and have some fun. There are a lot of pilots whose skills are probably not up to the top performing planes. Me included! I can concentrate a lot more on tactics with a slower plane. The fast ones require a lot of concentration just to avoid Terra Firma!
I agree with Bob that the limited events are just as fun and keep the technology wars and constant need to upgrade equipment to a minimum. Some guys just don't think they are having fun unless they are doing 120 mph with their hair on fire though! I admit that is fun too but the pool of pilots who have the ability and the means to do it is a lot more limited!

I think that a new streamer material will be required in Open B soon. Crepe only stays on if the conditions are ideal. Like Bob said it's not much fun if there are no streamers!
Captain America
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Middle of f'n nowhere

Post by Captain America »

The answer is always more power, a look in my garage confirms I am a beliver. However look at Mikes performance last year with the flying wings and super hots in open. Poor by his past standards, still far beyond my abilities but obviouslu a documentable loss in overall performance over previous years.

I love fast, I love the rush! I score better with an average plane...

Are you taking philosophy 101 this quarter?
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

For me I score better with a plane that is equal or a little better in performance that the competition. I did well with the super fast planes in Russia but almost all the other planes were the same. Going after slower planes with the high powered plane is a lot tougher!
TheKid
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 3:20 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by TheKid »

Lol, i don't think MSU offers a class on "middle-aged men's need for speed." I am taking a class called "men in america" which looks at the sexuatlity of men....in america (go figure). that was a BIIIGG mistake, all guy class, i totally should have taken women in america [:D], but thats another story.

What made me think of it is the large increase in people flying hi-po planes, it seems that russian wings on pressure is the next 25FX on an ultrathrust...man those were the days. And no one seems to have harnessed the beast. I kind of feel what Dr. Evil said, fast planes are good when you're chasing other fast planes, but not so good for chasing a slow plane. Maybe those out there with hi-po engines should start turning props like heli blades, so they can have endless thrust and not have the problem of flying past everyone...

And while we're on such a prrractical topic, why not variable pitch blades? Now THAT would be saweet!!
drewjet
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 5:24 am
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by drewjet »

Why not variable? Too expensive to risk in combat, and not really needed.

In my view, the problem with power is....I want to be 2 to 35 MPH faster than everyone else, so I figure out how to do that, then someone else with the same idea has to do what I did. Now he is the same speed as me, so I figure out how to add another 2 to 5 MPH, then the other guy figures out how to do that, and it just keeps going.

Is it wrong? Is it bad? I like the idea of open as it has allowed "the need for speed" to create advances in construction techniques, but it also has discouraged many as they keep needed to re-equip every year or else be slow or give-up. Thankfully we have a good amount of limited classes and so far it seems to me that they have leveled the playing field pretty well.

Eventually everyone will be so fast that we will need new streamer material because all the streamer will be gone in 30 seconds.

You pick your poison!
Captain America
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Middle of f'n nowhere

Post by Captain America »

They have this other cool thing called a throttle, you can be as fast or slow as you desire. Venturi and bladder setups are not my thing for that very reason. while it is true I operate the throttle more like a light switch it does at least give me the ability to dial the speed to match the situation.
User avatar
boiler
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:16 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by boiler »

Maybe the current streamer material will be the limiting factor in open.[:D] No need for wingspan, weight, rpm, and prop specifications.[;)]
Captain America
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Middle of f'n nowhere

Post by Captain America »

I'm going to loose it anyway Bob, no need for anyone to profit from it...
Captain America
Posts: 1009
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:33 pm
Location: Middle of f'n nowhere

Post by Captain America »

You should have come down and flown the open C event we had in 06 Brian. That was some rush.
sgilkey
Posts: 2351
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2001 8:26 am

Post by sgilkey »

i agree, the Open C event was FUN. the power is intoxicating, even if, in my case, i can't do anything with it and in fact do worse with more speed! but it's fun! I just put an OS .37 heli engine w/MCP on a "regular" 72" span B ship, and the aileron servos could not handle the speed, it would not roll once in the length of the field! I did a quick swap for an OS .32SX, it was still very fast and the aileron servos were holding on for dear life, but it was manageable. It was so fast that I spent most of the heat at 2/3 throttle. I scored poorly, pretty typical for me these days, but it was still a hoot!
Post Reply