NORTHERN EYES ONLY-North-South Cup Score Strategy

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sgilkey
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NORTHERN EYES ONLY-North-South Cup Score Strategy

Post by sgilkey »

NOTE TO REBS: If you have found your way to this thread, you are LOST. HIT YOUR BACK BUTTON, DO NOT READ ANY FURTHER. This subject is for NORTHERN EYES ONLY and trust us, you DO NOT CARE ABOUT IT.

OK, guys, Lou put me in charge of coming up with the "strategy" (as I will call it) for figuring out the North-South Cup scoring. We all know that, since the Cup was brought South and turned into the N-S Spittoon, no matter WHAT the highly skilled (and handsome) northern fliers do, the southern spin doctors figure out a way to massage the scores so that they keep the cup/spittoon. Past rebel "strategies" include annexing Colorado and Texas, calling high-performing flier's homes "Southern Ontario" and "Southern Phillipines" etc.

We can do better than this. We can come up with a legitimate scoring system that will still guarantee that we get the cup back.
"Legitimate" defined as a strategy that gets us the cup back, all other considerations aside other than we can at least "spin" it to be fair. We have a former math teacher in Bob Loescher on our team, he is also RCCA Veep so he can come up with a secret math formula that wins it for us, and it will have legitimacy because he is an officer. I personally favor this approach and don't think the Rebs would figure it out. I hereby list some strategies that might work, but I am open to other suggestions. A combination of some of these strategies might work too, we don't need to stick with just one:

1) Magic math formula- Bob, you get this assignment. One possible approach- if there are any NEGATIVE socres on the Northern side, we SQUARE all scores and then take the square root. If there are negative scores on the Southern side, we do not apply this "factoring" technique. They'll never follow this one!

2) Ed K. suggested we draw the N-S line at Mexico. I gotta hand it to him, even if he is a Texan, that is a great idea. We all know, right guys, that the North-South Cup was envisioned as a Northern prize, therefore we could, say, draw the line at the "Northern Hemisphere" or at "North America". I mean, even Rebs would not want "South America" to win the Cup/Spittoon. So I think this strategy is a real win-win.

3) Offer to trade fliers on an individual basis. We will "fool" the rebs by using combat handles. For example, we offer to trade the scores of the "Combat Emperor" for those of "Knife". Geez, everybody knows with a name like "Combat Emperor" he must be good, while the name "Knife" sounds unimpressive, like a piece of cheap tableware. They'll agree to that trade, no problem. (Just keep in mind if we trade Emperor to the Southern team, we need to be very conscious of how we apply the "negative scoring factor" discussed in option 1). Other swaps would be me ("Minuteman") for Wenger ("Wingman"). "Minuteman" sounds militaristic and dangerous, "Wingman" sounds subservient. They'll go for that one, I'm sure.

4) Apply a "quality" or "bonus" factor to the cuts, for purposes of Cup scoring only (NOT NPS). Prettier cuts get a 2x to 5x factor. Stack the cut judging panel with Northern judges, who will award high factors to Northern pilots (justifiably, of course, our cuts ARE prettier).

5) OPEN: this is the "nuclear option." ONce we see the scores, we excuse ourselves for a "pit stop" and then come up with SOME way to gerrymander the pilot grouping to ensure a Northern victory. This one might be hard to hide, so I would like to reserve it for last, and have a real "winning" stratgey going in. But if things go off the tracks, we need to have a "nuclear option." I personally think this is the strategy being used by the Rebs, and I grudgingly admit they do it effectively. Lou offers to make any adjustment that we call for in the interest of "fairness" yet when he re-cranks the numbers, we still lose. SOMETHING is up, but since we aren't cranking the numbers, we can't figure it out. Once we get charge of the numbers, we can figure out what to do with them.

PLEASE post any other suggestions you might have to address this urgent problem. Thank you for your input.
watchyerback
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Post by watchyerback »

I must say that I will be lurking in here. Everbody likes to watch a TRAIN WRECK!
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

FOUL FOUL Get outta here, Johnny Reb, go watch some Cops episodes or somethin', or go see Dukes of Hazzard and drool over Jessica in hot pants. This is YANKS ONLY. Now listen closely: fergit about what y'all just read, FERGIT about what y'all just read, FERGIT FERGIT FERGIT. There, that should clear it out....
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

Scott, Lou always massaged the numbers and moved borders to steal the cup. At the NATS we won the cup figured 3 of the 4 ways. Lou chose the way the South would win of course. I think the suggestion by Tim Feathers was great. North vs South Team Combat. For next year we have time to organize our cheerleaders and the South can't complain about the fact they are outnumbered at the NATS. We send up our 3 pilots against their 3 pilots. Last streamer still attached to a plane in the air wins. No New Math to complain about. Defeated team buys beer for everybody to party afterwards. Or in the case of the Northern Pilots like Brian, Ryan, Zack and others like them, they get the soda of their choice. Heck it looks like a slam dunk to me, we just send our kids up against the best the South has to offer.[:D]
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

That actually sounds like a lot of fun, based on Lou's N-S points matrix from the NATS that would be Gilkey, Ingerson, and Feathers against Adams, Liddle, and McGinnis. Now THAT would be fun to watch, a great group of pilots. I think it would be fun to do such a challenge, however I would also like to compute the N-S scores in a "traditional" way incorporating all fliers, if we can figure out a "fair" (make sure the North wins) way.
Feathers
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Post by Feathers »

Scott,

I think Lou's list is sorted by SSC scores only. I'd pull my name and give Fredricks the nod. Or William Drumm, or Bill Geipel, or Mike Bohlman- heck we're rich with choices! [:D]

As I look at the North/ South scoring it still makes me wonder, despite where he wants his scores to go, how a guy who ran for NORTH East RCCA Rep. last session could be the South's highest point gatherer?

Further- as the Team challenge was made and not accepted, I declare Team North the winner of the first North/South Team combat challenge. I plan to create a combat "can" rather than a "cup". I think I'll empty a fine can of "Old Milwaukee" and glue it to a board. Every time I look at it I'll think about how the South just backed away (and how I wish it wasn't an empty can).
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Tim, Scott, and Bob (Long haul),
Try as I might, employing all the voodoo math I could sum up, making every change you requested I still couldn't help the north win and Gawd knows I tried.

Not matter which way I did the numbers, and I did them a lot of ways the North lost. I would like to let you all down easy by saying some supportive things. For instance I could say as handsome as you Northerners are you should have won. Problem with that is no one would believe it. I could say ya'll just had bad luck. But heck, ya'll were so lucky I think you might have used up all your good karma for years to come.

I know you think you would have had a chance to redeem yourselves with team combat. Wish I could offer you some hope but doggonit, ya'll would have lost that one too. Shucks fellas I don't know what you all are going to do to win. All us Southerners (including our newly re-united Colorado Southern brethren) will just be waiting for ya'll to try again.
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

Dear Lou,

Thanks for your concern for us Nothern Pilots and your perceived lack of our skills. If you take our average against yours you will have to adimit bitter defeat for the South.There will be no "fudge factors" next year and the North-south cup will be back home again.[:D]
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

I don't know how it would work, but maybe we could have an officers' contest? I could hold my own against Bob, Lee could handle Tim, and I think Don could whup Pitman Gilkey. If the western contingent shows up, we'll take Randy Hodges from the <b>SOUTH</b>west and the North can have Randy Shiosaki from the <b>NORTH</b>west. Sounnds like a fair deal to me[:D]

Ed
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Post by Lou Melancon »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by boiler</i>
<br />Dear Lou,

.... If you take our average against yours you will have to adimit bitter defeat for the South...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Good point Bob, that is how the scoring was done in the North South Challenge. The average score for the Southern Pilots for rounds flown versus the average score for the Northern Pilots.

The North did win on most entrants, most rounds flown, and total points but lost when the scoring was averaged out over the rounds flown per pilot.
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Post by Feathers »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Good point Bob, that is how the scoring was done in the North South Challenge. The average score for the Southern Pilots for rounds flown versus the average score for the Northern Pilots.

The North did win on most entrants, most rounds flown, and total points but lost when the scoring was averaged out over the rounds flown per pilot.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lou,

Last year we at least agreed to only use the top 10 for the north vs. the top ten for the south. With a general average, the location of the event will (thankfully) draw more local inexperienced and newer pilots that will always skew the results to the more distant side. If you do not believe this, simply try to win the cup at Paris using your present formula.


<i>A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong gives it a superficial appearance of being right.</i>

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Feathers
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Post by Feathers »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't know how it would work, but maybe we could have an officers' contest? I could hold my own against Bob, Lee could handle Tim, and I think Don could whup Pitman Gilkey. If the western contingent shows up, we'll take Randy Hodges from the SOUTHwest and the North can have Randy Shiosaki from the NORTHwest. Sounnds like a fair deal to me<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ed,

We'll even do one better. You can fly your officers and for the north we'll put up nothing but kids too young to vote. [:p]
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Tim,
You are right in what you post above. The South has won because of fewer pilots, but basically more experienced ones. That as you accurately note is the flaw in the system of scoring all pilots. A flaw, that I have found easy to exploit I might add.

I would hate to limit the number of pilots to 3, 5, 10, a team etc, not because the south would lose or the north would win but instead because I kind of like to have everyone included.

Scott is making up the rules for the next challenge, and we will go along with whatever he comes up with. Do expect us to call "foul", "unfair" or "voodoo math" during every step of the process. Wouldn't be any fun without the constant smack that goes along with the Cup Challenge.
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Post by Dawg »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
We'll even do one better. You can fly your officers and for the north we'll put up nothing but kids too young to vote. [:p]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

NO way. All we have down South is OGC members. Just because we don't have any YWS Phenoms, you can't handicap us that way. Keep working on it and you will find a way to rig the scores so you can win... [:p]
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Feathers</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I don't know how it would work, but maybe we could have an officers' contest? I could hold my own against Bob, Lee could handle Tim, and I think Don could whup Pitman Gilkey. If the western contingent shows up, we'll take Randy Hodges from the SOUTHwest and the North can have Randy Shiosaki from the NORTHwest. Sounnds like a fair deal to me<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ed,

We'll even do one better. You can fly your officers and for the north we'll put up nothing but kids too young to vote. [:p]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As we say down here, "Mama didn't raise no dumb chillin'". Nice try Tim[:D]
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