Sticky Stuff

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NeilD
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Sticky Stuff

Post by NeilD »

I have more of a tactical question. Bruce said that some of the guys in TN are using sand paper on the leading edge of the wing tip instead of sticky stuff. Double sided tape sucks and the "Bird B Gone" we use is some nasty stuff if you get it on you. What is the rule or what is you guys opinion on a small, lets say four inch by one inch piece of sand paper on the wing tip instead of sticky stuff? Bruce said it works by draping the streamer over the wing, and as it slides to the tip to fall of it gets cut by the sand paper.
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Blue Note
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Post by Blue Note »

First I've heard of using sandpaper. One down side I can see is that if the ribbon is just cut and then falls off, it is out of play and the round ends with more just flying around with no targets. Just my take on things.

You could still use double sided tape if you want. Just stick it onto the back of some painters tape so it pulls off easier - if that is the problem.

Keep us posted.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

I have had some success with blue tape and using tranfer tape on top. JP has it for sale. I don't like the goo stuff, but I haven't seen sandpaper in N Texas use.
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

What's the problem(s) with double sided tape? I just bought several rolls of Scotch carpet tape because Veres and Jones have been using similar tape and it seems to work well for them. I tried carpet tape in the early days and found it hard to remove, but this stuff seems different. I applied it to two wings and left them outside to bake in the sun all day and it pulled off OK, not as easy as blue tape but still not bad.

It's MUCH less messy than bird goo, which I detest. I was hoping to change over to the carpet tape- what problems have you been having with it?

Chris' idea of blue tape + carpet tape sounds like a solution, although twice as expensive and heavy, but probably worth the convenience. I have found that blue tape, if impacted on the LE, will tend to split and become very challenging to remove, requiring picking off with fingernails etc. which is really fun when it's dripping with bird goop.

The first time we saw sandpaper was when we went to Russia- that's all they allow. It is amazingly effective and cuts the much-tougher streamer material they use with ease. They limit it to 10mm wide (i think...) by roughly 48 inches total span, which reduces/eliminates the advantage of long wingspans. They just glue it on- no hassle, don't need to put it on and off each time, doesn't pick up grass clippings or bugs, etc. Biggest disadvantage is that the streamer does not stay stuck. This can make counting the cuts a challenge (in Russia they only have 4 planes max so they don't have the furballs that we have and it's much easier to count cuts) and of course once all the streamers are cut, there aren't any targets left, while with sticky you can still attack the fragments.
THend
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Post by THend »

I love it when guys are like, can you give me a launch... Then you realize their plane is covered in.. honey, tree gooo, bug guts, Slime flat fixer, ..bees chasing them around...whatever.... Then I'm like...wow... That's not for me.

I've been laying down a piece of sacrificial tape that will peel off. The blue painters works, but so does many other types of tapes. Then I use the Harbor Freight double sided tape, only about a foot and a half of it long, cut in half so it is only about 3/4 to 1 inch wide. When I am done, the whole shooting match just pulls off easily. The double sided cut in half still grabs plenty of streamers, but I can some times manage to shake off that "yoke of oppression"...

Let us know how the sand paper works out, I'd use a real low grit though.
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Bill Geipel
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Post by Bill Geipel »

If you use bird repellent in the tube, don't get it mixed up with your tube of KY Jelly. Or your hemroid cream.
NeilD
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Post by NeilD »

Come to think about it Bruce was talking about Russia when he mentioned sand paper. I never thought about the streamer falling off either, great point. I use goop and it is messy, seems I am always touching the wing and having to deal with it. As you know it will not wipe off well, but luckly it comes off with soap. Even my clothes once washed. My experience with double sided taped was w/o painter's tape, and man it was a pain to peel off. I will try with blue tape and see if I like it more than dealing with goop. Thanks guys.
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Blue Note
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Post by Blue Note »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by NeilD</i>
<br />Come to think about it Bruce was talking about Russia when he mentioned sand paper. I never thought about the streamer falling off either, great point. I use goop and it is messy, seems I am always touching the wing and having to deal with it. As you know it will not wipe off well, but luckly it comes off with soap. Even my clothes once washed. My experience with double sided taped was w/o painter's tape, and man it was a pain to peel off. I will try with blue tape and see if I like it more than dealing with goop. Thanks guys.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Are you talking about Goop, like the household Goop or Marine Goop that you would use on EPP planes, or are you talking about the bird repellent goop such as Tanglefoot? The household Goop might give you a rubbery type surface that will give enough tack to grab ribbons and keep them still without the cutting action of teh sandpaper. It wouldn't fill up with grass and bugs and could be rolled off the wing like silicon. Might be worth a try. However, I'm certain it won't keep a ribbon in play as well as the bird repellent or tape, and don't dare let it touch the XPS foam or it will go bye bye.
cipoll717
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Post by cipoll717 »

iv always had a hard time getting tape to stick to my LE. never had a problem getting sticky stuff to stick though. i wipe it off with mineral spirits on an old wash-cloth or towel. btw, i use the polyethylene sticky stuff, sold to be a bird repellent.
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">3.4 Artificial Devices/Substances. There will be no structures, or devices allowed on the model that could aid in
the cutting of an opponent's streamer. Sticky fluids/sprays are permitted. Wing tip skid plates are allowed, but
must not extend forward of the leading edge of the wing tip.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


This is the first that I`ve heard of someone using sandpaper in an RCCA event. In my opinion, sandpaper would fall into the category of a "streamer cutting device" and should not be allowed under the current rules.

It would give the user a clear advantage over those using sticky stuff of any kind. The streamers would not stick to the user`s plane and therefore not slow it down as the cuts add up. It also limits you opponent`s number of targets, effectively suppressing his score.

If I see it being used at any contest I attend, I will speak to the CD about it, and ask that it not be allowed. Perhaps the Contest Board should make a ruling on the use of sandpaper, although it should not be necessary to do so, because sandpaper clearly "cuts" a streamer.

Note: edited post to add an exert from the combat rules.
davidturner
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Post by davidturner »

I'm with Lee on this one. Sandpaper will lower the scores and goes against the way the rules read.

I have seen a few pilots that don't seem to use any kind of tape or sticky fluids. I would think that would cause you more wing drapes and a lower score.

Is there a ruling on not putting anything on a wing? Ie leaving it clean with no tape or fliuds on it?
gsjames
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Post by gsjames »

I don't have a horse in this race as I am not contemplating any changes,(I use Tanglefoot) so I believe that I am unbiased in this matter thus, my $.02 .

The wording about no "structures or devices allowed on the model that would aid in the cutting of an opponent's streamer" is a remnant of Control Line Combat rules from the late 1950's - early 1960's wherein there were some people who wanted to put RAZOR BLADES, HACKSAW BLADES or GROUND GLASS, etc on the leading edge of their CL Combat planes. The rule was written from a SAFETY perspective, not necessarily from a scoring perspective. Many/most of the early RC Combat rules had their origin in CL Combat. I have been NATS CL Combat director, was a charter member of MACA and have watched CL Combat rules evolve over several decades, thus I believe that I have some knowledge of the "intent" of the rules.

The "concession" to the use of "sticky fluids/sprays" are a nod to the reality that in RC Combat there are very few "prop cuts" and most of the contacts that might result in a scoring event are wing cuts due to the 3D nature of the event. This is the opposite of CL Combat wherein most of the cuts are prop cuts because the airplane centerlines are more closely, but not precisely, aligned. Without some type of "sticky fluid/spray" on the leading edge of RC Combat planes there would be VERY low scores and an uninteresting event.

While the RC rules specifically allow "sticky fluids/sprays" and specifically prohibit protruding tip plates, the use of a SAFE material, like sandpaper, while not specifically addressed in the text of the rule, would probably be an acceptable substitute for "sticky fluids/sprays". When it comes right down to it, is double sided carpet tape REALLY a "fluid" or is it an adhesive, elastic solid? (I'm intentionally "picking nits" here for emphasis, not trying to start a flame war). From a physics point of view, even GLASS is a "fluid" since it flows down over a period of centuries in window panes.

It would be an interesting experiment, to allow sandpaper, at the local level, for a few contests to see what the actual effect is on scoring, etc. It certainly would be less messy than what we do now.

BTW, there are several people that are using rubber cement on their leading edges. The rubber cement is allowed to dry, it doesn't pick up grass etc, but still provides some adhesive properties that allows it to grab and hold streamers. It then can be "rubbed off" after the contest with very little mess. Is rubber cement a "sticky fluid/spray"? It goes on as a liquid, but dries to an elastic-solid. Once again, I'm intentionally picking nits for emphasis.
Hat Trick
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Post by Hat Trick »

A strict reading of the rules would also not allow carpet tape also. I have no problem with it or sandpaper for that matter. I would rather ban sticky stuff and only allow sandpaper to cut down on the mess! I'm not sure if the arguement that sandpaper will cause less streamer to stay attached to the plane is right. Would take some testing I guess.
mad
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Post by mad »

Back in the day, before Tn joined in the Rcca there were some in our group that used sandpaper. I will share a few facts.

It did not really cut the ribbons, It more held on to them to allow them to break. much like the sticky does today.

It did have a tendency to release them after a little while because it would cut at the sandpaper because of the drag of the ribbon. ( most annoying to get one lined up just to have it fly off in front of you.)

Also we were using 2 inch ribbons at the time.

I would not recommend using it because sticky is far better for getting cuts.

Even back then I went to silicone to catch my ribbons. When I built a wing I would coat the leading edge with a thin layer of silicone then take a very fine comb and put ridges in the silicone which would flex and grab the ribbon enough to break it, this method was much better at holding on to the ribbons.
ZenManiac
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Post by ZenManiac »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It would give the user a clear advantage over those using sticky stuff of any kind. The streamers would not stick to the user`s plane and therefore not slow it down as the cuts add up. It also limits you opponent`s number of targets, effectively suppressing his score.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, I can't buy this part of your argument, Lee. This basically would require the use of some sort of sticky material on the wing, and a plane with nothing on its LE would fall into the same criticism - of streamers not sticking - as would having sandpaper.

-= Dave
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