e-Waiver to be Invoked at the NATS?

This is the big one ladies and gents, the AMA Nats

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Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Heck in six months, the retail price of an OS LA 15 will probably jump to over $65[:0] and the IC guys will be asking for waiviers so that they can fly their LAs[B)].

Rick, by the NATS the LAs may not fit the rules either, then what`ca gonna do[?]
Feathers
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Post by Feathers »

Rick,

You just don’t have a good grasp of the situation. Let’s try a little fable to hopefully add a little humor and another perspective:

Once upon a time there was a zoo. This zoo was set up by some well-intentioned people to be a good zoo. A zoo that people would enjoy. These people created a board and thought it would be good to set up some very specific written rules about how animals would be added to the zoo, and what procedures should be followed as far as building new enclosures to ensure the health and safety of both the existing and additional animals that may be contemplated in the future. The rules were specific so that everyone could understand them and that so, far into the future- if none of the original board members were still around- a new board would have a specific set of directives. These directives would create harmony as the members of the board would know how to go about creating their new ideas for the zoo, and also so that all of the people that enjoyed the zoo would be confident that their donations and contributions would be used according to the principals and procedures that had been developed. There were occasional heated discussions about this and that, but for the most part the zoo board, the members of the zoo, and the folks that came to visit the zoo were happy.

The zoo had a very large coyote pen. The coyotes had been quite popular and soon there were more coyotes in this zoo than any other animal. Part of the success of the coyotes was the care that was taken in setting up the habitat for the coyotes. The original board had not foreseen that coyotes might be so popular. But the board at the time the coyotes were contemplated carefully thought their way through the process. They created a new pen and studied what the coyotes would need in order to survive and built an enclosure with everything the coyotes would need to thrive. They set up new guidelines by which more animals could be added to the zoo in the future without endangering any of the current animals.

Not everybody like the idea of having coyotes. Some people said, “We’ve always had bears. Bears are good. If we have coyotes then folks will stop visiting the bears.â€
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

The purpose of the wavier was for experimentation in actual competition. It was not for a rule change. Unless there is a rule change by the time of the NATS we need separate cages. The NATS is not the place for experimentation. I was in favor of a rule change proposal instead of the broad wavier where the membership could all comment and vote it up or down. I will abide by the board vote to have the broad wavier as passed. The wavier does not self involk. Any CD that does not wish to involk it should not be hassled and pressured to do so. Our CD's are the lifeblood of rc combat and we need to respect their wishes what ever they are. I gladly flew in most of the waviered co-ed events so to speak. I was in Iowa when Sheepy started this. I was in Boca when Slam and Drewjet proved it could be done. I wasn't mad at the CD or anyone else for trying it. With out the CD there wouldn't have even been a meet. Come on guys, back off and don't bite the hand that feeds you.
THend
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Post by THend »

[:D]And I just wanted to be allowed to have my Manta in the Zoo too![:D] Why can't we get a waiver to fly 2610 with 48 inch wingspan planes then too! It is just an "experiment", and at least the animals are actually more the same. Funny, if it suits the right people, it happens, but if it doesn't you get the "You need to follow the protocals" BS line we've gotten out here.
[B)]Jeesh[B)]

Luckily, the Zoo is not the only source of entertainment in this town![?] When Zoo attendance drops to the point of Zoo closure, who do you blame? The animals?

Is this thread bordering on a "Rules Discussion?" Could it possibly begin to spin out of control? Will I be edited?

I mean, C'mon, you shut down Galts tread that just asked what folks liked in 2005 in an honest attempt to guage what folks want.

Almost gone...fading...fading..fffaaaadddddiiiiinnngggggg
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Board members are directed to take this discussion to the Board Forum so that we can get a decision.
Vapor
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Post by Vapor »

If you follow the intent of the rule ($65) then and the LA's and Magnuns go up then you up the amount to cover them, that still doesn't explain how you define .15 cid in an E. Are you going to install a muffler and an R/C carb on your E? It is required.--------rick
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Vapor</i>
<br /> that still doesn't explain how you define .15 cid in an E.--------rick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is very simply explained. Spin the SAME prop at the SAME RPM's and have the SAME minimum weight requirements.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Vapor</i>
<br /> Are you going to install a muffler and an R/C carb on your E? It is required.--------rick
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Obviously not. The ESC takes the place of a carb, and muffler????? come on let's be serious.
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!!!!

I think I have seen it all. Guess what, open and scale classes allow electrics. It's right there in the rules, in fact in A and B they are given an extra 1/2 lb of weight. Whats going to happen when the electrics start showing up in these classes? HMMMM. Will it happen, You bet your bottom dollar it will. Then What?????????
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

the e-waiver was approved, not without considerable dissension and controversy, but approved nonetheless. isn't that enough for you? the waiver clearly left the decision to invoke to the CD, it appears the CD has his views on the matter and i don't see how the waiver includes a provision browbeating and taunting the CD if you don't like his decision.
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

Scott, I believe you are talking to me. If not then I apologize. I don't care if the e is invoked for the Nats or not. 99% chance I will not go. And even if I went it is up to the CD to do this. His choice period. However, asking if you will put a muffler and a carb on an electric plane is really being ridiculous.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

The Board, in conjunction with Rick Fraley, the NATS CD, has decided not to allow the e-waiver to be applied at the NATS. The reason for this decision is that the NATS are not an appropriate contest for experimentation.

This will apply only to SSC, which does not allow electrics in its current rules. Limited B and 2548 already allow electric propulsion, and do not require a waiver.

As we did in 2004, if we have flying time at the end of SSC, some demo rounds of IC versus electrics may be flown.
wrnstockwel
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Post by wrnstockwel »

True, an electric motor does not have a carb or a muffler and was not allowed by the original rules as written.

False, electric motors cost more that $65. I am running a 16x2 brushed motor that costs $25, through a gearbox that cost $13, spinning an legal prop 17,300 static on the ground. If it would make others feel better I would gladly go to a mechanical on/off or 3 step speed controller with servo. Kinda disappointing to see the attitude be what it is, but somewhat understandable.
For me, more streamers, more practice = better skill sets and more cuts.

Scott
AirWaveUS
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Post by AirWaveUS »

Thats great Scott.

Please give us more info on the motor and gearbox...
wrnstockwel
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Post by wrnstockwel »

AirwaveUS,
Go to the following forum for the specifics:
http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11947

This is under SSC Lee Liddle started the E-SSC basics (what I have learned)

I am posting all the specifics there.

Scott
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