Proposed Aircraft List

This is the thread to aid in development of new ideas and classes. Post working rules and gather feedback!

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Ed Kettler
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Proposed Aircraft List

Post by Ed Kettler »

Cash and I have gone back to our reference libraries and have pulled together the following list of aircraft that we think meets the 2548 aircraft selection criteria. We'd like to get your input on additions and deletions, along with documentation to support your claim.

We do have some concerns about apparent low build rates on the following aircraft, and whether they should be included, even though they served in combat squadrons:
- Do-17Z Kaus II - German night fighter - 9 planes
- Fiat CR.25BIS - Italian twin - 10 planes
- IMAM Ro.57 - Italian twin - 15 planes

The last bit of feedback we'd like is a yes/no on biplanes. When you answer that question, please take a safety perspective into consideration. Consider the following scenario: the aileron servo is in the upper wing and the wing gets knocked off, and we have partially controlled plane, not a lawn dart.

Thanks for your support.

Ed
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<b>Single Engine Fighters</b>
1. Commonwealth CA-12 Boomerang - Australia
2. Avia B.524 - Bohemia Moravia
3. P-43A Lancer - China
4. Vultee P-66 Vanguard - China
5. Blackburn Roc - Commonwealth
6. Bolton Paul Defiant - Commonwealth
7. Fairey Firefly - Commonwealth
8. Fairey Fulmar - Commonwealth
9. Gloster Gladiator - Commonwealth
10. Hawker Hurricane - Commonwealth
11. Hawker Tempest V - Commonwealth
12. Hawker Typhoon - Commonwealth
13. Supermarine Seafire - Commonwealth
14. Supermarine Spitfire I-IX - Commonwealth
15. VL Mersky II - Finland
16. Caudron C.714 - France
17. D.520 - France
18. MB.152 - France
19. MS.406 - France
20. FW-190A/D/F - Germany
21. He-112B - Germany
22. Me-109E/F/G/K - Germany
23. Ta-152H - Germany
24. Fiat CR.32 - Italy
25. Fiat CR.42 Falco - Italy
26. Fiat G.50 - Italy
27. Fiat G.55 - Italy
28. Macchi C.200 - Italy
29. Macchi C.202/C.205 - Italy
30. Regianne Re.2000/2002 - Italy
31. Regianne Re.2001 - Italy
32. Regianne Re.2005 Sagittario - Italy
33. Kawanishi N1K2-J (George) - Japan
34. Kawasaki Ki.100 - Japan
35. Kawasaki KI.61 Hien (Tony) - Japan
36. Mitsubishi A5M (Claude) - Japan
37. Mitsubishi A6M (Zero) - Japan
38. Mitsubishi J2M Raiden (Jack) - Japan
39. Nakajima Ki.27 (Nate) - Japan
40. Nakajima Ki.43 Hayabusa (Oscar) - Japan
41. Nakajima Ki.44 (Tojo) - Japan
42. Nakajima Ki.84 Hayate (Frank) - Japan
43. Curtis-Wright CW-21 Demon - Netherlands
44. Koolhoven FK58 - Netherlands
45. Fokker D.XXI - Netherlands, Finland
46. PZL P.11 - Poland
47. PZL P.24 - Poland
48. IAR 80 - Rumania
49. Polikarpov I-15 - Russia
50. Polikarpov I-153 - Russia
51. Lavochkin La-5/7 - Soviet Union
52. Lavochkin LaGG-3 - Soviet Union
53. MIG-3 - Soviet Union
54. Polikarpov I-16 - Soviet Union
55. YAK-1/3/7/9 - Soviet Union
56. F2A Buffalo - US
57. F4F Wildcat - US
58. F4U Corsair - US
59. F6F Hellcat - US
60. P-35A - US
61. P-36 Hawk/Hawk 75 - US
62. P-39 Aircobra - US
63. P-40C-N Warhawk/Kittyhawk - US
64. P-47C/D/N Thunderbolt - US
65. P-51 Mustang - US
66. P-63 King Cobra - US
67. P-26 - US, Philippines
68. Rogozarski IK-3 - Yugoslavia

<b>Twin Engine Fighters</b>
1. Beaufighter - Commonwealth
2. Bristol Blenheim IF/IVF - Commonwealth
3. Mosquito - Commonwealth
4. Westland Whirlwind - Commonwealth
5. Potez 631 - France
6. Do-217N - Germany
7. Dornier Do-17Z - Germany
8. Dornier Do-217J - Germany
9. He-219 - Germany
10. Ju-88C/G - Germany
11. Me-110 - Germany
12. Me-210 - Germany
13. Me-410 - Germany
14. Fiat CR.25BIS - Italy
15. IMAM Ro.57 - Italy
16. J1N1 Gekko (Irving) - Japan
17. Kawasaki Ki.102 (Randy) - Japan
18. Ki-45-KAI Toryu (Nick) - Japan
19. Ki-46-III KAI (Dinah) - Japan
20. Fokker G.I - Netherlands
21. P-38 - US
22. P-61 - US
23. P-70 - US
24. Petlyakov Pe-3bis - USSR


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Ed Kettler
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Ed, if I built a bipe, I'd put the aileron servo in the lower wing..now, if you want to have real fun, link the upper ailerons to the lowers...just think of the roll rate..[;)]

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Post by Serg »

Lets add to list single engine IL2, IL10 (Ilyushin-2, Ilyushin-10)

And twin engine “speed bomberâ€
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

I should have posted this at the top of the topic. Here are the selection criteria for the aircraft:

<i><b>A3 Selection Criteria.</b>

The model must be a scale replica of a propellor driven fighter or fighter bomber that was in active combat squadron service between 9/1939 and 8/1945 and scored aerial victories against manned aircraft during that period. Planes not designed for a primary or secondary offensive air-to-air combat role (e.g. dive bombers, ground attack, torpedo bombers, light bombers, medium bombers, etc.) are prohibited. Aircraft that had guns mounted for defensive purposes only shall not qualify as fighter/fighter bomber aircraft. Paper studies, mockups, limited production and other types of aircraft that did not serve in active combat squadrons are prohibited, even if they saw combat. Active combat squadron service is defined as a unit of twelve or more production planes of the same type deployed to a combat theatre, certified as combat ready by their commanders.</i>

Given the definition of "active combat squadron service" it looks like we would have to exclude the Do-17Z and the Fiat CR.25BIS. I didn't include the A-36 Apache (P-51A derivative) because its primary role was a dive bomber, even though it had a significant air-to-air capability.

Serg, on the topic of IL-2/IL-10, Lou Melancon, Cash and I have had conversations regarding a grandfather clause for transitioning 2610 planes/pilots. The intent would be to allow pilots to fly their existing fleet of 2610 birds for a fixxed period (a year?) as long as it met the rest of the specs (weight, rpm, prop, muffler, etc.). This would give people time to transition and increase participation in 2548. I haven't put pen to paper yet, so I'm looking for feedback on that idea too.

Ed

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Ed Kettler
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Post by The Snake »

Good point Ed, I love the IL2; great flying plane!

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Post by Hat Trick »

Grandfathering is a great plan to aid in the transition. If you want real fighters then the IL 10 is out. It was purely a tank buster and ground support. They needed fighter escorts to keep from being shot down!
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Post by dsharpe2 »

Ed,

You asked what people thought about allowing biplanes to compete in 2548. Since I had mentioned it on the list I had better say something.

Yes. Simple answer.[:)] If a biplane meets the requirements set forth for any other plane to be allowed then that specific biplane should be allowed.

I would even say that it should meet all the other requirements for the class (Wingspan, Weight, Prop, RPM ...).

I doubt that a biplane would have any advantage and might have too many disadvantages to be competitive but if someone wants to do it then let them.

Here are a few other reasons for allowing biplanes:
<ul><li> 1. People might enjoy it and have fun doing it. </li><li>2. Biplanes might draw new people
</li><li> 3. While it is outside the scope of WWII it is worth mentioning that it might help set the baseline for WWI combat.
</li><li> 4. I really do not see any down side in allowing them. </li><li> 5. And lastly, the real draw to me for allowing biplanes is that they were a part of the war.
</li> </ul>



Thanks,

David Sharpe
dsharpe2@tampabay.rr.com
Clearwater, FL

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