Limited-B Rules ( as of now )

This is the thread to aid in development of new ideas and classes. Post working rules and gather feedback!

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SpadCat
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Post by SpadCat »

Jimbo, I read rule #5 stating only expansion type mufflers can be used. Also rule #4 stating a max rpm of 15,5K, but I would like to point out that suvivability is one of the main reasons for this new proposed class. (Which I have been following with great interest). The weakest part of an engine is the muffler attach point. Most damage to my engines, both the Mag and OS in Open B, has been the stock muffler ripping the muffler mounting screws out of the head in a dirt nap (or even midairs) . When I switched over to a mousse can with header last year, I have yet to have any of that type of damage from the subsequent dirtnaps (which have been many). At most, I have had to replace a cheap can. Is there a way to detune the mousse can to 15.5K? This alone would dramatically increase the survivability of the single most expensive piece of equipment on our planes. Or would this just open another can of worms? I have not had the same problem in SSC, using Mag .15s.

Thanks to all you guys for all the work put into this. It could solve a lot of Open B's and SSC's problems and still be a very fun class.

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Post by Jimbo »

A Macs one piece muffler is allowed if it does not put you over the 15.5K limit. I know they are not cheap but they would help you with your dilemma.

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Post by Hat Trick »

I think the Mac muffler will be popular in limited B. It's tough, quiet and very durable. I believe it's pretty close in cost to a replacement muffler.
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lightning
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Post by lightning »

I use Mac mufflers on almost all my 25 powered planes. RPM testing shows that they are better (by about 500rpm) than a stock OS muffler, but lose about 3-400rpm over a stock OS muffler less baffle and stinger.
BUT they are tough. I have yet to break one (got a couple with some dings in though). That includes some dirt naps that completely buried the engine!! They are also 1/2 oz lighter than the OS.
A very good compromise. Current retail is close to $30.

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Post by BigCountry »

Keith,

I believe Jimbo owns a couple of MACS mufflers that would fit my 25fx so we might do some testing with my motor (it's been the strongest from the beginning) and see what we come up with. Hopefully we don't run into a situation where the MACS would push some motors over the 15.5 limit. I'll post the results here when we get a chance to do it.

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Post by lightning »

The MAC seems to add 4-500rpm over a stock OS. As most folks (including myself) are in the low 14K range with the APC 10x3 or MA 10x4, I don't see a MAC putting us over 15K, let alone 15.5K.
I'll try one at the RCCD Melee this coming weekend (9/18). We're planning on a couple of Lim-B demo rounds.

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Post by Jimbo »

If the Macs muffler puts you over the top try less nitro or extra head shims or both.

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Post by gunfighter »

Hey Guys! I'm Back!!!

I've been reading this thread with great interest for the last hour. I am one of the pilots that quit flying open B because my eyesight and reflexes could not keep up with the speed of the current crop of planes.

I have been a proponent of a "limited B" class for a long time. Congrats to Jimbo and BC for putting this together!

I do have a couple of comments FWIW.

I think the original idea of letting any legal open B plane fly is the absolute best. This would allow the easiest crossover to open B for anyone wanting to get started, or for pilots wanting to fly both classes.

A "spec class" would be great for club combat and I would support it whole heartedly - BUT - IMHO it will not be accepted by the masses for competition. Combat pilots like to experiment, and any rule limiting experimentation will serve to limit competition on a national basis.

Lighter is better! When we flew open A early this year, many of us flew the same basic planes we were flying in SSC but with different props and higher nitro to get much higher speeds. We built them a little lighter (with less armor in many cases) to meet the weight MAXIMUM in open A. We flew out of most mid airs we had, however, when we added weight to be legal in SSC, many of us had severe damage. I flew the same plane in both classes and had 2 mid airs in open A which I flew out of with very minor repairs (wing strike and prop to prop with Mark L.) In SSC I suffered major damage to both planes. Does this prove anything? Maybe not but I am convinced that lighter planes will suffer less damage and be able to fly out of more mid airs than a heavy plane.

One point I do agree on - higher wing loading will produce less mid airs and more pursuit type flying as in scale and SSC warbirds.

I know there is a vocal minority that often preaches "gloom and Doom" if their rules are not incorporated, but I think the original set of rules is more than sufficient to get started. Except that I would go with the same weight MAXIMUM that open B flies with.

Let's fly some combat!!! We can sort it out on the field of battle!




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Post by gunfighter »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I think the original idea of letting any legal open B plane fly is the absolute best. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I should have said " with prop, muffler and RPM limitations to reduce speed".



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Post by BigCountry »

Hey there Gun,

Good to see you back and about. I was beginning to think you'd wandered off into the woods somewhere and got lost. I'm glad you like the Lim B idea. We're gonna do a demo on Friday afternoon at Jetero so it'd be great if you could be there to fly it with us. Until then take care and great to have you back....[8D]

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Post by gunfighter »

BC - If you mean this friday, sorry I will be out of town. If you mean the friday of the Jetero meet in November, I will be there!



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Post by BigCountry »

Sorry about that Gun, I meant the Friday before the Jetero contest. I look forward to flying with you again, take care and we'll see you then. If you're ever in these parts give me a holler. I got plenty of extra combat ships you can fly....

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Post by gunfighter »

BC,
Would you and Jimbo (and any of the rest of your group) be interested in getting together with the GCRC boys sometime next month? If so, I'll talk to Thojo and see if maybe they want to fly some limited B or we could just "fly what you bring" like they usually do. It would be a good warm up for Jetero.
I need to be in Houston around the second weekend of the month.
Thojo - you out there? What do you think?


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Post by thojo »

Gun,

Your always welcome with our group with or without me out there. We normally have 8 to 10 guys on any given weekend. Let me know when you'll be here and I'll make sure everybody will show. About half our group flys only .15 sized planes, so more than likely it will be fling what you bring, but if your flying limited-b stuff, it shouldn't matter too much on speed...

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Post by BigCountry »

Gun,

I'll talk to Jimbo but that sounds pretty doable. The second weekend of the month is the 9th and 10th which would work great for me. The weekend after that is our Big Bird fly-in and I will probably be pretty tied up with that. I'm sure we can do whatever. Jimbo still has some SSC stuff and of course we have our true Limited B stuff and Jimbo has been working on a SpecB design that is showing a lot of promise so I'm sure we can find something to fly that fits in with the crowd. Just let me know if you'll be around the weekend of the 9th and 10th and I'll take care of rounding up the troops here.

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