Beyond 2004

This is the thread to aid in development of new ideas and classes. Post working rules and gather feedback!

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mark s
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Post by mark s »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Jimbo</i>
<br />Do like we are doing, make up a class for your area. Something that meets the needs of local pilots. SPADs with trainer engines like the plain bearing .40 is a good start. Newbies don't care about the NPS and most pilots have one or two cheap engines hanging around.

Limited-B
Try it,you'll like it !
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I think this is the wrong answer. According to Jimbo, just because I'm a newbie means that I not interested in the NPS. Why would we go down a road that we could keep us from competing with any other club? Here's why you have a problem Lou. You have guys like Jimbo telling newbies not to care about the NPS and to make up some combo of engine/plane and fly with locals. This is wrong, and if the RCCA want us all to go our separate ways, then there won't be RCCA. I'd be willing to bet, that after time, when combaters change directions because of life, family, or other reasons that even Jimbo will be looking for NEWBIE's to come fly his planes by his rules.

If I have taken Jimbo’s comments the wrong way, I’m sorry. Instead of offering to help, we are told to go start our own form of combat. If we did not think we would be interested in the NPS why would we even join the RCCA. AMA membership is the only requirement that any of my RC clubs have.
BigCountry
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Post by BigCountry »

Mark,

You seem to be asking a question you already know the answer to. If SSC has peaked the greatest amount of interest in your area than put your eggs in that basket and run.

I would suggest asking to do combat demos at some of your local fly-ins like your big birds. Have plenty of documentation on hand about the available kits and the RCCA and put it in front of people. The more people that see it the better chance you have to find those two or three folks that will give it a try.

SSC is not going anywhere, I would suspect that it will continue to be the most widely flown class in the RCCA for sometime to come. Is it a beginners class? I don't know but it will produce the least amount of carnage and if that's the goal then you're in the right place.

I'm not sure you're gonna see the RCCA deem any class a beginners class but I could be wrong. A lot of us thought initially when SSC was introduced that that was it's purpose but were corrected by Lou and some of it's other forefathers that it was not inteded to be a "beginners" class of combat so I'm not sure what to tell you on that.

One thing's for sure we're not going to find any new pilots here on this forum so I'm gonna go fly some serious combat this weekend and have some fun. I hope you can do the same...

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Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

Mark, Boilermaker, you guys crack me up [:D][:D][:D][:p] Down here we try whatever we have to try to get local pilots interested in combat. We also do our best to get them in the RCCA. Sorry you don't agree with our methods but thats just too bad.

Limited-B
Try it,you'll like it !
Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

By the way Mark I accept your apology[:I]
Here is how we do it.
STEP ONE)Get them flying combat ANY way we can.[:p]
STEP TWO) Get them in the RCCA[8D]
STEP THREE) Get them to try it competitivley (RCCA contest)[:0]


Limited-B
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thojo
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Post by thojo »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry you don't agree with our methods but thats just too bad.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

"US" - Jimbo, you must have a mouse in your pocket, cause I don't think you represent all of us in our thinking, nor the RCCA in general.

You will have to excuse ole Jimbo, he tends to enjoy pulling peoples chains from time to time...

If there is one shread of truth to his thinking, I think it would be to start them out anyway that you can... If all they have is .40 sized engines, let them play with whatever they have on a local level, then as they get more involved and want to compete in the RCCA, help them get the right stuff for the class they want to fly.

Creating a bunch of rules and restrictions is frankly the wrong way to go about building local support for combat. Get them out there, let them fling what they bring and keep it low key, low stress combat. When you start going for "points" is when the competitions really start and you have the leap frog technology effect going. Keep points/rules/restrictions out of local combat and you'll keep 8 to 10 guys flying every week like we do in Houston....

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Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

thojo not to worry, you were no included in "US" I was referring to the three clubs I fly with. I didn't say to make up a new RCCA class, however if that's what you want go right ahead.I was talking about club level stuff to get new pilots interested. The only rule we use is......[:0]wait a minute, we don't use rules cause it's just for fun. Come to think of it we don't even write down scores. yet[:p]

Limited-B
Try it,you'll like it !
mark s
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Post by mark s »

Let me try this again. We started with spads and it was great. We just want a class that we can point people, to get started. This way we can go fly with other clubs following the RCCA rules for that class. Maybe it’s too political to call any of the classes a beginners or starting class. I believe that if you had this class it would be easier to point newbie in the right direction. Jimbo and BigCountry are correct. We need to get out and do demos and what ever it takes to get people flying combat. Which we are currently building planes for other flyers and have at least 1 big demo coming up. But please understand that the 3 of us have completely started over in the last 60 days going from coro planes and our own rules, too SSC or Limited B planes and the RCCA rules. We are not trying to make anyone mad, but just looking for ways to point people in the right direction.

Boilermaker is currently working on a web site that is just to promote RC combat and the RCCA.

Any input would be appreciated
Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

What is a beginners class ? You would have to define what it means to you first. I think Limited-B, 2548Scale or SSC can be flown by beginners.

Limited-B
Try it,you'll like it !
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Mark S,
I think you and BoilerMaker are doing the right thing. You are doing something rather than just talking about doing something. That is the important thing.

I have yet to find a silver bullet for getting folks interested in combat, and even more important in sustaining their interest.

It is my opinion that the vast majority of RC fliers are not competitive by nature, and our job is to find those who are. Racing and Combat fliers are kindred spirits in that we both want an event that it is clear when you win, rather than events where your flight routine is "judged".

Without a guaranteed silver bullet we are left with trying a lot of things. The only thing that I know that works is to fly enough combat enough places that the folks who have a competitive nature see it and want to do it.

Of that group there are varying levels of commitment. Some will do it for awhile then quit when the time it takes changes from casual to serious. Others will commit to the whole thing and only fly combat. They are the ones who blossom into SuperNova's of enthusiasm but often end up as black holes of burnout.

The intial reason for SSC can be found in the question "... what if one plane would last a contest, and two would last an entire season..." The thinking was then that if the time to compete was the time spent at contests, with lowered shop times more folks would get in, and stay in. We have not yet achieved the objective with SSC but we have gotten much closer to it.

As long as we have a heavy chunk of metal on the front of our airplanes and a high rpm spinning prop on the front we are going to damage airplanes we collide with, no way to get around it with the current designs.

Maybe a new design would reduce carnage without losing the excitement? Ideas anyone.

Lou Melancon
Alpharetta, Georgia
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

<b>Design Contest</b>
One thought I have had is for RCCA to do something that attracts a lot of attention to combat and includes current non-combat fliers. The idea I have is to offer a Design Contest for a new combat plane to all RC modelers with significant prizes for the winning design.

I believe we could come up with $1,000 in prizes for the winners.

Here is an example of what we could do:

1. Post the announcement of the Design Contest on RCCA web site, RC Universe, ACES, any other web site forum that has traffic.

2. Offer a complete radio system for 1st place and other awards for second and third.

3. The design <i><u><font color="red">would not have to be built to be entered</font id="red">. </i></u> Instead it would have to be drawn to scale, with written support for its projected performance and flyability. Extra points would be given for shrouded propellers, and a slight bonus for electrics.

4. The only parameters would be 64" span, less than 12 ounces per square foot wing loading, and a top estimated speed to be less than 60mph (or other parameters that we think would yield the perfect combat plane).

5. Designer could choose any internal combustion engine, or electric motor. No limits on displacment.

6. Estimated cost to build and equip would be included as part of the design dissertation.

The winners would be chosen by the RCCA technical committee. All entries would be posted along with their design biographies on the RCCA web site, and the winners would be recognized on the internet. The idea is to generate new, creative, out of the box thinking.

Your thoughts.

Lou Melancon
Alpharetta, Georgia
Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

D@MN Lou, that's a great idea ! [:0] Did you think of that?[:D]

Limited-B
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Serg
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Post by Serg »

Wonderful idea!!!

Disagree with ##3. I would rather say: <<It must fly at least ones to be entered>>
Why <<64" span>> limitation is necessary?
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Jimbo,
The idea came about after speaking to a witch doctor, drinking a little potion number 9, and consulting a Quija board.

Serg,
It doesn't have to be 64", but the contest needs some parameters. I am ok with another span or a span that is greater than something and less than something else. I think if there is a wing loading criteria then the weight of the engine/motor, electronics, battery(s) will pretty much take care of itself.

Do you think this would get much attention from the non combat types on the forums, in the electric threads, SPAD threads, Aerodynamic threads, building threads, Pylon thread, engine threads, etc?

I think if we opened it up, gave some nice prizes and encouraged people to submit as many designs as they wanted it would be some interest going in combat from non combat fliers.

Lou Melancon
Alpharetta, Georgia
Jimbo
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Post by Jimbo »

I think it would draw some attention from guys that love to problem solve.

Limited-B
Try it,you'll like it !
Cajun
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Post by Cajun »

I think it is a great idea.

In fact, I had just proposed a design competition in the Spad forum to design a coroplast wing that would rival the foam wings in weight and durability. More guys can build coro than can cut foam, but we just have never found the right combination of materials or design to make them durable.

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