e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

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e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

Below is the proposed Rules & Regulations for the e1000 Combat "class" designed for electric "park flyers".  The attempt was to make a relatively official set of rules in the event of growth beyond the casual get together.  It is a game and every game needs rules.  Many considerations have been included for safety and different scenarios that emerge with competition.  People tend to try and push the rules to the limit in very creative ways, so I have tried to anticipate this so as to discourage cheating without the need of a lot of restrictions.  The scoring system encourages a balance of offensive and defensive strategies and does not necessarily favor a pilot at either end of the spectrum.  Attempts to mimic some of the finer nuances of real life combat encourages a strong offensive strategy as well as the necessity for avoidance in order to discourage collisions, which lead to equipment damage, expense, and time loss in the game.  The rules may need to be played with a little to accommodate different conditions, but the secrete is in the battery restrictions, the round time, and the scoring. Larger sample sizes of participants should reveal any areas that need tweaking to get it just right for newbies and veterans alike. Note the lack of restrictions on plane size, weight, motor choices, props, etc. There are countless off-the-shelf and scratch built planes that would qualify to participate in this class, although some will be more competitive than others. Piloting skills, building skills, and strategy application all come into play here allowing each individual to build one their own strengths.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

e1000 Combat

General Rules

Each plane begins every round with a 30 foot long x ½ to ¾ inch wide crepe paper ribbon attached at one end of the ribbon directly to the plane (no string).
A Round begins with a mass launch at the “Launch” command. The plane must cross the Engagement Line with complete ribbon in the 5 second period between “Launch” and “Begin Combat” commands. Five (5) minute rounds between “Start Combat” and “End Combat”.
Points are rewarded and penalties imposed per Scoring section. Highest contest total score wins.
Flight outside the Engagement Box is defined as Non-Engagement. Points and penalties are awarded by the Pilot's Judge. The Judge's ruling is final.

The Combat Plane
There are no restrictions for the aircraft's size, weight, speed or construction. The aircraft must be airworthy and safe to operate.
Electric motor(s) propulsion only, either pusher, tractor, or both. Battery may be of any type and cell count with a maximum of 1,000 mAh of total power on board the aircraft.
There will be no forward projections or notches on the wing and vertical stabilizer. Nothing sticky or grabby to "catch" a ribbons is allowed.
No hard structures, such as dowel rods, are allowed along the leading edges of the wings.
All planes must employ the use of a prop saver mechanism.

Field Layout
The 1st line nearest to the Parking Area is the Spectator/Pit Line. Head protection must be worn forward of the Spectator Line.
The 2nd line is the Pilot Line which is 40 feet forward of the Spectator Line.
The 3rd line is the Safety Line which is 15 forward of the Pilot Line.
The 4th line is the Engagement Line which is 25 feet forward of the Safety Line. No combat is allowed between the Pilot Line and the Engagement Line.
The 5th line is the Out of Bound line which is 200 feet forward of the Engagement Line.
The Engagement Box is defined by the Engagement Line, the Out of Bound Line, Side Lines 200 feet minimum to 300 feet maximum width, and a ceiling of 200 feet; or as designated for the event.
The Landing Area is the area between the Engagement Line and Safety Line. Landing there avoids incurring Engagement Line violation penalties.

Scoring
Full Round Bonus + 80 points: The aircraft must cross the Engagement Line before the “Start Combat” command and land between the Engagement Line and Safety Line after the “End Combat” command to earn Full Round and Retained Ribbon points.
Cuts + 20: A successful launch within the first minute after The Start Combat Command must be achieved to earn Cut Points. Cut points are awarded only for cuts made within the Engagement Box.
Money Ribbon +2 points/foot: Earned only if plane lands in the Landing Area after the “End Combat” command.
Contact / Collisions -20 points for all pilot involved

Ribbon or Repairs:
A plane in the Landing Area can be retrieved, have ribbon attached, and relaunched in the first minute after the “Start Combat” command to qualify for Cut Points.
A plane may be retrieved from the Landing Area for repair and relaunched to earn additional Cut Points and Money Ribbon Points. No ribbons are allowed to be added or removed during repair.
Any landing or crash during the combat period forfeits Full Round Points for that round.
There is no disengagement period after a collision. If your plane is unsafe, land or ditch it. You are a fair target until you are on the ground. Good judgment in regards to the safety of the crowd and pilots takes precedence over any scoring considerations.

Out of Bounds / Non-Engagement:
1. The 1st offense results in a warning with a 10 second window to reenter the Engagement Area.
2. The 2nd offense or exceeding 20 seconds out of bounds incurs a 100 point penalty.
3. The 3rd offense or exceeding 30 seconds incurs an additional 100 point penalty, loss of all. accumulated positive points, and loss of the full round bonus. Pilot is required to disengage combat and land for the remainder of the round. Penalties for other violations and collisions for the round are scored.

Engagement Line Infringements:
1. 1st offense results in a warning with a 5 second window to return to the engagement area.
2. 2nd offense or exceeding the 5 second window incurs a 50 point penalty.
3. Each additional offense or exceeding a 10 second window incurs a 200 point penalty.
NOTE: Crossing of the engagement line is ONLY allowed during approach for landing at the end of the round and during a controlled landing during the round for repairs and relaunching when possible. No penalty is incurred in these circumstances.

Safety Line Infringements:
1. No grace period window: 200 point penalty
2. 2nd offense or exceeding a 2 second window incurs an additional 200 point penalty and the loss of all positive points for the round. All negative points from violations and collisions remain for the round. The pilot is required to disengage and land immediately.

Pilot Line Infringement:
1. All above line violations apply, loss of all positive points for the round, and disqualified for remainder of round. The pilot is required to disengage and land immediately.
NOTE: Line infringements are cumulative; thus crossing the pilot line means you also crossed the engagement line and safety line in the process. All applicable penalties would also be included in your final score. Line violation penalties do not apply if occurrence is directly due to damage incurred by a collision incident and beyond pilot control.
Last edited by Blue Note on Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

   Here's a quick video of an impromptu e1000 combat round at my local club.  While typically there needs to be 4 or more contestants for any type of "official" rounds, we still had a great time playing around. While all of these planes are Corvos, many other planes also qualify to participate as long as you don't carry more than 1000mAh worth of battery power on your plane. 

[youtube]ZDB2wfzl3VI[/youtube]

     After taking the available ribbons, I decided to slow down and fly more casually to allow the others to practice and take some shots on the ribbon.  This might have also put some more ribbon back on their planes for me to go after again.  As it turns out, rather than stealing my ribbon, Danny just plowed right into my plane instead.  Got to watch out for that one.     It was a hard, direct hit that broke one of the small wires coming out of my $8 motor.  I didn't have the equipment to fix it at the field, but had it ready for more in about 15 minutes once I got home.  My Corvo has suffered MANY collisions and wrecks since it's beginning and keeps plugging along and flying great.  90% of my mid-air collisions have not even grounded the plane before the time ran out. As long as we keep the speed and weight under control, the e1000 class is shaping up to be a low damage and cost combat option.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

All this being said, I have literally built planes for people, outfit with their gear, and placed them in their hands to generate some combat enthusiasm at my home field. Eventually, they all enjoy flying the planes as a sport flyer and often times “forget” to bring it to the field when we talk about getting together for some combat action. I have concluded that you cannot really get the local action built up by trying to get a bunch at your club into combat, but if you can get about 4 people into from your club to take their combat planes to another club's fun-fly and do an impromptu round...now that sparks some interest. At this point, having and extra on a separate radio that you can pass off to someone in this case has proven to work very well, but at the end of the day people still tend to drag their feet if not pushed a little. Some might even want to buy that extra plane from you on the spot...hooked! The planes need to be relatively slow and approachable until they are ready to unleash into a full on furball fury. Not too big, not too fast, and not too loud. More and more clubs are starting to have noise restriction imposed upon them which can make this an issue for some. Also, we need to keep in mind that when we are doing rounds, we basically shut the skies down for everybody else. Kind of like training a dog, we want to do enough to make them excited and eager for more, then stop. We don't want them to tire of sitting there watching others fly around. Just my thoughts and experiences.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by boiler »

Thanks for you input Chris. I know what you are doing is a positive step to keep streamer cut alive.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

Nakajima Ki-43 Hayabusa "Oscar" ( Flat Foil ) e1000 Combat Plane

This plane is just to show some variety that would qualify for the e1000 class using different building techniques. The Oscar was made from scrap sheets of 1.3# EPP foam using a 1300KV "Blue Wonder" motor, a 10A ESC, GWS 0804 prop, and a Turnigy Nanotech 1000mAh 3S 25C battery ( the exact same gear that is in the Corvo demonstrated in the previous post ). 10 minute flight times at 75% throttle average ending at 3.85V per cell. 34.5" wingspan, 200sq.in of wing area with an AUW of 9.48oz to give a wing loading of 6.83oz/sq.ft. This was just a test of concept and materials. The drag of the fuselage, wing, and tail is typical and expected for this type of construction, but I was surprised of the performance penalty compared to other designs boasting some actual aerodynamic considerations that use the same propulsion system. For the cost and time commitment, the results are not bad, but not spectacular...about as expected. Initial flights ( on video ) reveal that it could potentially be improved with an actual airfoil and/or an application of some light weight laminating film ( 1.7mil ) to stiffen the wing a little. Thinner tail feathers certainly would not hurt in the drag department as well. ( The laminating film was later tested on this exact plane and it did indeed remove any traces of flutter. ) Originally, the control surfaces were secured and hinged with Welder contact cement, which works great. Unfortunately, I applied a little too much which made them too tight. I had to cut them free and reattach with Blenderm tape to make them flexible enough to operate freely. This step takes away from the appearance and may account for some of the flutter that was generated in a pullout from a high speed dive on the original setup. Lessons still being learned...

Again, I am not promoting one particular design, just trying to showing some of the different options that are available for builders of all levels. Let's face it, combat requires some degree of scratch building if you are going to participate much.


[youtube]80Y4on8fc8o[/youtube]
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by PFawcett »

I built one of you corvos. It really surprised me! In a good way. I think this class defiantly has alot of potential. I don't necessarily agree with everything you have written into your rules. that said I could live with the rules as stated.
Btw i tied a regulation rcca streamer to mine and it pulled it just fine.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

PFawcett wrote:I built one of you corvos. It really surprised me! In a good way. I think this class defiantly has alot of potential. I don't necessarily agree with everything you have written into your rules. that said I could live with the rules as stated.
Btw i tied a regulation rcca streamer to mine and it pulled it just fine.
I am glad you were able to build yourself a Corvo and have had good results with it. I wondered about that after I posted the additional details in the other thread when you requested them. http://rccombat.net/forum/viewtopic.php ... 3&start=15. Flying these planes with others ( or similar planes ) has been a lot of fun, but also confirmed ( in my opinion ) that electric and nitro is really going to be hard to mix successfully, especially if you want to keep it cheap and durable. We typically use either "official" RCCA ribbons, or split a roll of crepe paper ribbon from the dollar stores and then measure them off against our clubhouse at the field. These pull just fine and tend to break a little easier.
As far as the "rules"...I knew there would be some opposition, especially from seasoned RCCA combat pilots....and that's fine. The major changes such as collision penalties and higher "complete round" bonuses are pretty obvious ( and different )to what we are currently used to. It creates a different game for sure, but these are features that have been included to enhance the safety and survivability aspect of the game while forcing a more life like battle strategy. Some of the other stuff is to clarify the size of the contest box in a way to intensify the action while penalizing the "runners" that never really engage. Again, I am just laying it out there and am open to discussion as necessary. I have aggressively tried to build RCCA based combat in east Tennessee for the past several years... with much labor and frustration on my part. My experiences with several local clubs and " rogue"pilots operating from smaller fields or parks have led me to develop this form of combat to accommodate the ever growing "electric only" crowd and, if need be, I can/will continue to embrace and grow e1000 combat independently with no hard feelings.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Hat Trick »

The very first combat rule had a box you had to stay in. It was difficult to enforce as you needed at least 2 line judges and a method for them to let the pilots and judges know they had crossed the line. I even made up horns with a button trigger to sound when someone crossed the line. Judges rarely knew if the pilot they were judgeing or someone else had crossed the lines so it was very difficult.
The very first rules rewarded you for surviving a midair. A midair penalty works the same way as it is difficult to define what a midair is. Is a slight tap a midair and the reward or penalty applies or does it have to be a bone crusher to apply penalties or rewards? No one wants to win a contest because they were most successful at avoiding midairs!
No judgement just what has happened in the past history of combat. I hope it works for you.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

Mike,

I appreciate your input and know it is based on your experiences with you own participation. Locally, we never firmly enforce the boundary lines other than calling people out if they are consistently not engaging. Any warnings or penalties are casually handled by the individual judge for that pilot and the "rule" is basically on paper to get the point across that you cannot just run away and consider yourself competing in combat. The engagement box restrictions has also been used to help control the upper limit of speed and controlability requirements of the planes, but at my tight, tree-bound home field it is a moot point. Contact has basically been considered any "collision" that produced a noticeable sound while imposing an involuntary change in trajectory any of the involved planes... or falling parts. Overall, we are pretty casual or it degrades the fun. I agree we cannot let the perfect evader to be able to win the overall contest, but there should be some incentive to avoid knocking each other out of the sky and breaking stuff unnecessarily. In real life, any air to air contact may very well be life threatening and would certainly effect the remainder of the mission, thus the mind set. Playing with different scoring scenarios, I have tried to arrange the point spread in such as way that the perfect defensive pilot may still remain somewhat competitive... in there with those of us that get some cuts but also have a few hits or crashes along the way... but they will never be able to beat the aces that grab a lot of ribbons and remain airborne most of the time. On the other hand, a very aggressive pilot may capture several ribbons early the rounds and then crash out or run their battery down before the end of the round, in effect never making it back "home" to live and fly another mission. That could turn into a deceptive strategy with an acceptable point sacrifice if the penalties do not discourage it adequately. No matter how you look at it, it is a difficult formula to balance all of these qualities while making it simple and still fun. I suspect this will remain a relatively active discussion for years to come.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

By now I have been asked by several people if I would kit the Corvos. First let me say that I did not bring up the idea of an e1000 combat class or the Corvo to try and promote kit sales, but rather to show what it could be.. I originally did not plan on producing kits for these to any capacity, which is why I have made most of the information about it's construction and design open source. I also feel that the tendency to push toward a one-design approach to help keep the playing field even is a mistake of limitation that has been proven to be detrimental to the diversity and competitiveness that comes from new design ideas. That being said, the Corvo was purpose designed to fill my needs for a small field ribbon combat plane for that was slow, durable, and cheap enough to engage newbies and the electric-only generation without the hesitation of time and financial investment. It also had to feel and behave very similarly to the larger planes I use in the SSC, Limited B, and Open B RCCA classes.
The way I build the Corvo may differ some from other planes mostly in the way that I use a combination of EPP and EPS foams for the wing construction and the light weight, clear, iron-on film I choose to use for covering to maximize my strength to weight ratio while minimizing costs. Coloration is applied to the foam directly using samples of latex house paint with an airbrush before the clear film is applied. Finer details are easily provided with Sharpie markers as desired. These steps have been performed in this manner in an effort to keep the weight to a minimum without sacrificing strength or driving up costs or complexity. For these reasons, I believe covering methods and materials are an important aspect of the Corvo's success...which has been proven repeatedly. Keep it light if you want it to fly it's best and to keep the contact damage to a minimum. So if I am to kit it, this is what you can expect :

Corvo Kit Contents

  • EPP/EPS foam wings
    1/8" fiberglass rod spars
    1/8" fiberglass rod joiner rods
    Coroplast vertical and center piece
    Coroplast elevons
    1/8" fiberglass vertical stiffener
    Motor mount
    4ft of clear iron-on covering ( enough for 1.5 Corvos, or one with practice and mistakes. This also provides plenty for repairs as needed. )
    5/32" fiberglass fuselage stiffener
    Piece of Mylar for hatch cover
    Assembly instructions will be made available online or by download as needed


The length of the spars dictate the necessary box requirements for shipping. The best option is going to be the same 24" x 24" x 4,6,8,10,12" boxes that I purchase for my Tomahawks. I will be able to fit several Corvo kits in each box, depending on the box depth I choose and how much filler material is required to keep things from shifting around in transit. Experience with these boxes has shown me that FedEx tends to be my cheapest option, but delivery costs still average about $15 CONUS, which is the flat rate I will charge for each box that goes out, regardless of the number of kits inside.

What you might need to complete the plane... ( most builders have these items on hand already )

  • All of your electonics ( motor, esc, receiver, battery, servos, etc. )
    Props and prop savers
    Velcro ( sticky back and straps to secure the battery )
    Glues ( I use PolySeamSeal for most of the build, with minor amounts of thin CA, 5 minute epoxy or quick set PU, and a dab of low temp hot melt glue )
    Thin clear tape ( to seal over the edges of the Coroplast vertical )
    Lightweight spackle ( I use it to fill in the spar slot after gluing - optional )
    Blenderm tape ( for elevon hinges )
    Small wood screws to mount motor
    Control horns and push rod materials ( for elevons )
    Covering iron
    Paint ( I prefer latex house paint through a sprayer. Always test on scrap to make sure it wont eat you wing. )



Provision of this kit and the effort to assemble an adequate build thread/assembly manual is dependent on sufficient commitment of interest. Wire will not touch foam with intent of kitting the Corvo until I have about a dozen kit requests, then these will be built to order. My time and resources are extremely limited right now, so taking time away from the little bit I have available for flying to build kits instead is going to require the motivation of knowledge that these planes are going to see more than just recreational aerobatics by sport pilots.

Availability will be limited to complete kits only and will be $50 per kit + $15 S&H per box, once enough interest is confirmed.

Contact me via this thread or email me at : contact@bluenotecreations.com
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

For those of you that have inquired, I should be able to fit up to 12 Corvo kits in a single box that I will ship CONUS for $15...if there is enough interest to proceed...
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by boiler »

In the last week I have completed 1 new design using the Dollar Tree Foam Board wing. I have converted two of my 1/2 A designs to electric. I have almost completed a Joker kit to fly on a small electric motor and 1000mah battery. I plan on building the other Joker that I bought at last years Toledo show which will have a much larger motor and a 2200 mah battery pack for a fun fly plane. I think it is too heavy and too fast for a park flyer size field.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by Blue Note »

There does not appear to be enough interest to warrant the time, hassle, and up-front expense on my part to make Corvo kits available for a provisional/recreational park flyer streamer cut combat class. There has been no legitimate inquiries or commitments for kits other than those requested by Bob ( thanks, Bob ) in the past 2 months. The offering of making Corvo kits available is thus withdrawn due to lack of support from the combat community. Ultimately, it will be interesting to see what each of us come up with on our own to really make the "class" diverse and exciting, which is a fundamental feature of having so few aircraft restrictions in the rules. Now let's get creative... Thanks.
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Re: e1000 ( Electric Park Flyer ) Combat and Scoring Concept

Post by The End »

If you want to sell these Corvo kits, just go to RCGROUPS slope section and post pics. I know it would be a very fun Dynamic Soarer right away, and DS combat is SUPER fun. It is like NASCAR and Combat combined.
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