Uniting all WW II 1/12 scale fighter classes !?


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Yankee Samurai
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Post by Yankee Samurai »

Scale here in Idaho is not dead. I know of eight 2610 pilots who fly at my contests every year. You just gotta want it. Lou I'd love to see a contest, just make it in the middle of the country.[8D]
topspeed
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Post by topspeed »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by THend</i>
<br />

I absolutely agree Lou. Out here, we had it good...died, re-kindled it a bit...died....trying to get it going again... There was a time when scale was doing very well. Hmmm...what do we think happened?

It is the scale combat yo-yo-athon of the last 6 years... or so.

----------

FWIW, next time you see something you think needs to be tweaked... don't burn down another mans church for the sake of your belief... just go build yourself a church. We had a decent congregation at one time, but now we all speak in different tongues..

I have no idea where that last paragraph came from... just kinda hit me.

<font color="green">Fly what you want, fly hard and laugh alot.</font id="green">

Peace out my Brothers, and I wish all of you a great New Year.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<font color="green">.....and use a HARD HAT !</font id="green">

Better to make own rules and have fun while you still can.

I know what it is....you gotta have a showstopper..like IDA boys in the eighties flew wooden 1/14 BEARCATS with OS max .21s and they had rudders and flaps on them !!! One of them made 1/12 scale Ta 152 H-1 with retracts and flaps and took part in a scale competition. Somekinda fanatisism is allowed too.

[:D]

In the end I think Moses has to go to the mountain and not visa versa....[:(]
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

AMA has just put the new "rule book" rules up on the AMA web site:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFiles/RCCombat(1).doc
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tmelton
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Post by tmelton »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lou Melancon</i>
<br />AMA has just put the new "rule book" rules up on the AMA web site:

http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFiles/RCCombat(1).doc
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Ya left the pdf off the end of that url.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/UserFiles/RCCombat.pdf
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Big Dog
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Post by Big Dog »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by THend</i>
<br />Mix yourself a beverage, relax and enjoy. I have to drive home from work and then do the same.

I absolutely agree Lou. Out here, we had it good...died, re-kindled it a bit...died....trying to get it going again... There was a time when scale was doing very well. Hmmm...what do we think happened?

It is the scale combat yo-yo-athon of the last 6 years... or so.

They are too fast..
They are too ugly...
They are not frontline fighters of WWII...
The playing field is not level....
There is too much carnage...
There is a furball...
There is no pursuit...
There are too many mid-airs...
The paint schemes are way off...
The scale deviation allowance is out of control....
Oh...the prototypes...don't forget the prototypes...

Tell you what boys and girls...

I'd gladly live with all of that and go back to the good ole days when we had 20+ scale pilots all competing at one time at Palomar, and read of other events with plenty of scale pilots. I'd live with all that horror in the blink of an eye, because you knew there were other guys out there getting ready, and scale combat is and was where it REALLY is at. Where has everyone gone.... we lost the mojo..

So now we have: in order from above..

Planes that are still too fast for some...to slow for others..
Planes that look like watermelons from the "it looks ugly crowd"[:0]
The Skyraider is about to be allowed into 2548...the twin Mustang already is?? I am baffled at that logic.. but I guess it is cool[B)]
The playing field is "more level"... 48 inch wingspan for all! [:D]
There will always be too much carnage... get over it.
There is still a furball even at 2548 speeds, it just cycles now..get speed dive back in!
There has always been pursuit, you may just stink at it....[:p]
There will always be too many mid-airs, read some of the 2548 reviews!
Oddly, I find more flying watermelons these days than in the past. Don't ya love tape stripes!
Yup, we moved the ME109 wing to make it balance..but we never used plank wings on a Ta152..[;)] we know who did..
Oh my God! the prototypes did as much in WWII as the Skyraider and the twin Mustang... but somehow "they" are "OK" and qualify as highly recognizable front line fighters..[?] We all rationalize I guess [:I]

Have WE really gotten anywhere? What is better?

Oh,,, 5 guys in Texas are flying scale, 3 in Florida, if we are lucky 3 in Southern California, and a handful in Utah... my theory is when in Rome..fly what class they are flying.

All of this was well worth it wasn't it? I am floored that rulebook 2610 isn't even getting a stage at the Nats... not that I can come, but I am pretty darn surprised.

I am pushing for AMA rulebook 2610 to be flown out here. The rules changes about to take place should help. I have no idea of how many or who I can get to join in. Maybe nobody...

I'll build it...maybe they will come.

FWIW, next time you see something you think needs to be tweaked... don't burn down another mans church for the sake of your belief... just go build yourself a church. We had a decent congregation at one time, but now we all speak in different tongues..

I have no idea where that last paragraph came from... just kinda hit me.

Fly what you want, fly hard and laugh alot.

Peace out my Brothers, and I wish all of you a great New Year.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
As 1 of the 3 in FL flying scale (there might be a few more that dont show up on the RCCA scores) heres MTCW

I have grown to like the pursuit and speed of 2548.
With limits the field is about as level as it will get.
I have seen a reduction in the repairs I make to my scale fleet.
I would not support larger engines for 2548. I would rather see 2610 go to .25 on a 48" airframe (minus the weight, prop and RPM limits) for a "open" scale class that has crossover airframes.
Ugly is in the eye of the pilot. If you got the guts to fly a Russian Rat I say "go for it" But right now all I see is Zeros, P51s and Oscars. Unless it is a kit there is little scratch building in Fl due to we dont use blue foam in houses and is a special order to get.

For those that are trying to fix the scale rules get out and compete in a class to know what works before you speculate on fixing it.

It may not seem like it but I agree with most of what you said (with maybe the exception of the chuirch part)[}:)]
combatgoblin
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Post by combatgoblin »

WoW Craig I must be one of the lucky three. Who else is it you cris john ted me and so on? I flew an Me-109 and a Spitfire and we fly 2548 here in Florida and it took a while for me to warm up to 2548 as I was an addicted scale nazi if it wasn't really scale or the markings or color were slightly off I didn't think it should fly.
After flying 2548 I understand that it is easier to build a survibale
airplane it is the way to go.As far as the engine rule goes I don't like it as I have over ten .28's but I bit the bullet and bought some .25's that could do the job and you know what we have fun at the 2548 meets.With the economy the way it is and the loss of combat pilots its in the best intrest of everybody to fly the same class and stick with the exsisting rules or scale will join the dinosoars IMHO.
THend
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Post by THend »

FWIW,

Sorry for the Hijacked thread Top Speed.

One united scale combat would be great.

I don't have the answers, I only know the frustration I have felt over all of the rules debates yada yada yada...

I'll re-affirm my one post above: I think we have all the bases covered. There should be some form of scale combat to suit everyone.

My plan is to go have fun...

Now I got to go burn a copy of the new AMA scale rules!
Yankee Samurai
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Post by Yankee Samurai »

Bottom line is that people don't want to spent the TIME to build a scale ship.
THend
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Post by THend »

Anyone notice that the published rules for scale don't mention engine limits for single engine fighters?
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Terry,
During the rule book editing process, rule 3.4 was left out. I have contacted AMA and asked for Scale Rule 3.4 to be put back into the text. That rule will read:
<b><i>
3.4 Maximum total nominal displacement for single engine designed aircraft shall be .30 cu. in.</i></b>

Hopefully it will get put into the AMA web site rules early next week. Best regards, Lou.
TheKid
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Post by TheKid »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We will wait till 2548 is official, before renting a bus and blowing all of you away at the US Nats...
(And we will teach Open flyers Pursuit, and how to keep streamers ! )
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lol, i can't wait for this day. I have always enjoyed the scale classes for their pursuit aspect. Though in recent years it seems as though 2610 is heavily based on furballing. 2548 is still almost all pursuit,and im more than fine with that [^] helps me a lot.

We all do this for our own reasons, but lou hit it on the head. Its winning or nothing. To me the only reason we fly scale (well I fly scale, eric or the old man don't fly anymore) is its just another way to fly combat, period!!!!! Its all about being in the air and having fun and getting the juices flowing. I would be impartial if we did 10 round of scale and 10 or open, as long as i get to fly 20 rounds that day, im happy. Although it is nice to switch it up sometimes and do other things
topspeed
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Post by topspeed »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Yankee Samurai</i>
<br />Bottom line is that people don't want to spent the TIME to build a scale ship.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Terry and all,

here is the DSS chart for scale like dynamic speeds for 1/12 SCALE MODELS( other scales too ):

http://www.scaleaero.com/maneuver_realism_speed4.htm


I agree the scale models have to be real eazy to built..some dudes here built 50 styrofoam Hellcats for one one season...they were expendable.

here is my simple cat:

http://www.aafo.com/hangartalk/attachme ... ntid=12296

I'd like to get this kitted ( ANYONE ? )..it has 5 fuse formers and 5 foils per wing.
NC Sweden
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Post by NC Sweden »

Hello to all!

I'm new at this forum so I havent got the time yet to read all threads...but this one is really interesting.

My "byline" is, why kicking in open doors...?

There are so many discussions going on about all the new rules we have all the time.
Excuse me (taliking about ACES now), where is the new rules?
Last year we had a general vote in ACES, hardly any of the rules had any effect on the models itself.

Then people start to talk about new rules to encourage new pilots, is this for real..or what?
The result, even more difference in classes and more confused pilots the ever before.

Work with what you have and keep the rules accurate, do not allow people to stretch them to much.
This will create "artificial" rules that pilots will "claim" is the right way because they have used to implement them "forever"...bah...

We have less different engine classes in Sweden and we strive to bring down the speed.
The new max RPM for a 25 class engine is 15.500.
For the first time this year we have started to meassure RPMs more frequent and the result is sometimes stunning...we have found out that several pilots would not even make it for last years rules...
Yesterday we had one pilot turning his Webra at 17.800.....

If a pilot is interested in Aircombat but has no time or effort to build a scale warbird we implement a "rookie rule", he can fly with whatever he manage to get airborne as long as he doesnt use more then a 25 class engine, simple enough?

Once he gets more interested he (or she) WILL build themselves a warbird in 1/12 scale, no doubt.
If you want to spend less time, use a ARF or use Timos plans (germany). All wooden constructions of the YAK-9 that you build in a evening or two...

This is just som thoughts from the Swedish NC....and my skin is hard enough.....[:)]
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Late arriving to the thread, and haven`t read all the way through it.

On the original suggestion in the first post......as an electric only pilot, my question is ...What provisions have you made for electric power? I don`t see any. This is one reason that I like the 2548 rules with prop and rpm restrictions. It allows electric powered planes to compete along side IC powered planes and even though the electrics suffer a weight disadvantage, they are competitive. At the same time, an electric pilot can`t sacrifice run time for big advantages in power, because he`s also limited to the same prop and rpm as everyone else.

Electric power is the future of all model aviation, including combat. Using rules that unfairly restrict electric power, or worse yet, don`t even allow it`s use, is a good way to insure the eventual extinction of any type of powered competition. IMHO of course.
NC Sweden
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Post by NC Sweden »

Hello again!

You are right, heads on!!!

In ACES Sweden we did it like following.

Same prop size and RPM as for the IC engines, no difference.
Still only a few people use electric engines and one reason
is I belive the economical aspect.
If you want a good engine and powerline it is by far more
expensive today, especially when you consider the lifetime circle
of the eq....

I have tested one set up myself but the axis got bent after a landing...end of story.
I make now a new try with 5 mm axis and perhaps less cells
to get the weight down.

In ACES International we made a vote last year and the result of that is much more liberate rules when it comes to e-engines.
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