E-TA152 for 2610 and 2548 at the NATS

You got a cool electric WWII combat rig? This is the place to show it off!

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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

The second plane's wing was more scale in shape. I think Lee said yesterday that the first one was built more to test the powerpackage performance. Sorry, no pics, left the 'toy' at home yesterday.
THend
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Post by THend »

Bilinski Ta152H flown at 2001 Nats.
Image

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So easy, even a Cave Man can do it..[:p]
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I guess we'll vote on it at Nats, but I'd much rather know in advance how much I can get away with on my own planes. I really hate being at such a disadvantage because I followed the rules and other guys didn't quite so much and just aren't called on it.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

What planes are you talking about Kirk? Have you ever actually built a dedicated 2548 plane? If you have, why don`t you post pictures of them so I can tell whats wrong with it.

I don`t ever see you showing anything new or contributing anything to the forum. I only see you posting criticism of rules, someone`s plane or someone`s opinion. Let`s see what you`re working on.
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Terry, can you read that tape measure from 15 ft?
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o1moregil
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Post by o1moregil »

Nice Router!
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Now I'm totally lost...
THend
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Post by THend »

At 15 feet I can tell you what is and what is not a Ta152H. Remember, back in the horrible days of 2610 the Ta152H was the most modelled combat fighter at the Nats and around the country.

The one you have pictured here would have had Ed and the other 2548 boys reeling and rolling about the horrors of 2610 scale. Jeff Weiss would have gone bald in an instant over that wing.

Your fuse looks ok from what I can see, but the wing is off...you know it, we know it, everyone knows it. This would be the most "off" Ta152H I have ever seen.

I am not trying, nor do I want to be mean, but the feedback you are getting is that the plane is too far off to be legal in 2610 or 2548.

I am nothing less than stunned and shocked that ED and the rest of the 2548 Fathers seem ok with it.

Cash, I am confused too![:D]

I don't want to be negative, but how do you tell one of the best pilots in RC Combat that his plane would not get a pass vote to fly? How can I communicate that to you, without everyone gettng pissed off?

BTW, I always try to build my scale birds as close to scale as I can. The one thing I see as OK is to shift the wing forward or back a tad for getting CG and weight in line.

No fued, no fight, no bad blood. Many of us want some sort of scale to evolve out of the ashes from the last 2.5 years of bitter debate. This seems like a switch in stance from the 2548 crew, and I think some of us are kinda caught off guard.

OK, you've been pulling our legs right?

I want to contribute, how can I do that, how can I help?

PEACE,

Terry
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Terry,

If you read my post:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The second plane's wing was more scale in shape. I think Lee said yesterday that the first one was built more to test the power package performance. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

you will note the reason why I am not going apoplectic. I don't think the first wing is close enough, but, given the mission to prove the power package, I don't consider it a major issue for a test bed. If he shows up to a contest with that wing, it is a different story.
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

If I show up at a contest with the original wing it will be a 190-D9 in 2548.

If it`s a 2610 contest, then it will be 4 inches longer and be a 152.

If pilots or a CD want to DQ the plane or give it a penalty, that`ll be their call.
But, I`ll tell everyone here and now, if that happens in 2610 and it`s the CD`s call, well there`s nothing that I can do about it, except to look at the other planes entered and politely point out to the CD all of the problems with other planes. If it happens in 2548, everyone better have their 3-views ready and be ready to defend their Zeros, because, like Kirk, I won`t stand by an watch the rules be enforced sporadically.

As far as the original wing goes, I agree that it`s not "scale". However, I don`t see the big deal either. A 152 has by far the least amount of wing area of any plane on the 2548 list, and in 2610 form, it has about 150 squares less than my Skyraiders did. It`s not a ringer in either event. It`s just a plane that can sort of fit into both classes, and is a cool looking plane.

If I was looking for a ringer that would fit, that would be the IL-2. In 2610 form it has the same span as the 152 and in 2548 form, it has way more wing area than the 152.

Don`t worry everyone. If I bring the original plane to a contest, I`ll modify the wing. But if you want to know why scale in any form is on life support, just reread this thread, and you`ll have a pretty good idea.

Here are a few of the top reasons:

1) Scale Nazis
2) Ambiguous rules
3) CD`s and pilots who only criticize from behind their keyboard, but look the other way at a contest
4) Kates, Sky Raiders, Firebrands and Mantas
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Oh, and I forgot Fairey Battles
THend
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Post by THend »

Lee, you are right on...almost.

Oh God, do I have the will to continue this?......

The oddballs were never the problem, never ever ever. The fact that you could not build a front line fighter to be competitive with them was the major beef, closely followed by "likeness" to the scale appearence of what ever plane being modeled.

Every contest I have been to that has had scale planes has had a plane that was very very marginal in appearance, but always within profile/planform limits.

The big problem areas were planes with wild color schemes, no markings, or missing canopy or cowl. I don't ever recall having to ride someone because they cheated on the planform.

I competed, and had fun with P40s and Corsairs BTW.

The worst offenders were pilots with poor building skills (just ugly planes), a particularly nice young man for having some of your Sky Raiders that had not even had a sanding block hit them on the fuse, Bilinski because he didn't have a canopy on a 2548 Airacobra, others used camo ripstop nylon that didn't look scale.

Did they fly? Yes, but not without some haggling, but the main point is that they didn't engineer "IN" any performance enhancements that we could see. They didn't have the skill to build clean and pretty, or didn't care to build very scale like, or had time to make a canopy, or opted to save money and cover with pre-camo ripstop.

So, maybe we need a get together. Somewhere we can all get together, and in the course of a weekend hash out what needs to be hashed out. The debate has gone on long enough.

Ed has been kind enough to forward his proposals to us. I believe there IS a way to work all of this out. We need to really think long and hard about what WE want to do. I don't want to spill any more blood over what is best for scale. The RCCA has become the Middle-East of the radio control community. We all need to lay down our swords, step back, and have a face to face conversation and come to some common ground.

Or, we just go back to our regions, and do what we want to do.

We've been having fun...please join us.

PEACE

th
THend
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Post by THend »

BTW, for those who track who has and who has not edited their posts...

I edited my post because I had spelled something wrong.

[:D]

Now I have a PSS contest to enter...let me know how this works out![:D] The Manta took 3rd last year...let's see what we can cook up next.

BTW, Ed Kettler IS my inspiration for this years PSS fest. If I can get it done, he will CRAP![:p]

Feel free to email me if you need to.
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Good input Terry.....Peace brother
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Make sure to keep us posted on what you are doing on the slopes.
montague
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Post by montague »

(haven't caught up yet, replying to Ed on 4/30)

Ed, thanks for the clarification, I didn't know there were 2 of them.
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