Alex's IC-power 3696 at 2007 NATs

You got a cool electric WWII combat rig? This is the place to show it off!

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o1moregil
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Post by o1moregil »

I think the idea of having ic engines in the E3696 is cool, I don't think there will ever be Ama Rcca combat events in your Local parks anyways.
Hat Trick
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Post by Hat Trick »

The gas engine wasn't any louder than the electrics. I didn't even know it was gas until the flights were done!
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

I`m an equal power system opportunity kind of guy. I must say that I was a bit shocked to see a muffler hanging out the side of Alex`s Wildcat, but this is an experiment, a developing class, and there is nothing in the rules dictating electric only. So, I gladly welcomed Alex`s participation. Here is my opinion in a nutshell.

The plane was VERY quiet. I`m sure you could get a way with flying it anywhere and e powered plane could be flown. The motor is not operating in it`s optimum power band and did not seem to unload. It was a little slower than the rest due to lower rpm and a higher wing loading. I don`t have a problem with it. If it means more pilots, which it will/would, then I say good deal.

E power at 3696 levels is very easy to do, and will be competitive with IC systems from what I can tell. If some one wants to fly IC in 3696, I don`t have any problem with it at all. But that`s just me.
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Oh, but you will have to submit to the dreaded "pinch test" Alex. LOL
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

I agree with Lee. The more pilots in a class the better. The majority of the ic guys didn't lock out the E guys in the normal events and Lee isn't locking out the IC guys in the 3696 events. Let's all get together and play. The only hang up I see so far is in Open B or 2610 where we have some homework to do regarding what in E engines equals .30 cid in nitro. In any of the limited classes like SSC, Limited B , 2548 and 3696 we have no problem with co-habitation of power plant types.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Limit them 1/2A and I'm happy[:D]
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

BTW there is no longer an electric waiver for electrics in SSC. Last Fall the electric power option was added to the rules for SSC. Electric power is just as much of a part of the SSC rules as IC power is.
Alex Treneff
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Post by Alex Treneff »

Last weekend I bolted an OS .15 LA on the front of my F-4F. The it added a little nose weight (not quite enough).

I forgot a tach, but the engine was making enough power, and the plane few much better than it did at 8,600 RPM at Muncie. The next 3696 project is the LA on a new mustang airframe.
jj
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Post by jj »

Sorry, but I've been very active at promoting this as an Electric Class to encourage new combat pilots, electric only flyers, and support electric only fields.

I cannot support allowing IC in 3696.

There are already plenty of dead or dying IC scale classes.

Why do you want to kill yet another class.

If the comment is the more the merrier then what will make this the scale IC class that doesn't go on life support.

If 3696 does go IC then for its last season (2008) I will likely take re-fit my planes with LA .15s to save on batteries. After all the LA .15s are almost considered junk now because they won't turn 19k like the new Magnums.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it again and again and again.... ugggh.
crash_out
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Post by crash_out »

First off, my hats off to Alex. If I'd known you were working on this, I would have tried to help out. I'm working on a 3696 Zero and Mustang right now.

Second, I only fly electric now, thanks to a .61 FX eating my left hand. But even before that, 95% of my planes were electric. I stood to the side and watched glow planes do things my electrics could never match. There were certain fliers that would kind of gigle at me and my "toy" electrics.

Now that's not the case. I have electrics that can outperform glow. Even if most people I don't meet aren't about to convert to e-power, they at least respect what can be done.

I WANT to compete with ic powered planes. I don't understand why anyone would want to exclude them. Are you afraid they'll dominate? If they are using the same props, same RPM's, and same weight, what's the big deal?
So glow planes aren't allowed everywhere? Well, then they won't fly at those events.
How can glow planes destroy 3696? You talk like 3696 will become stricly glow, and then die. I don't see that's the case. If the IC side starts to slack off, then won't there still be e-flyers going at it?

This really irritates me. All this time I was hoping that a class would open up where I could be competitive without spending an insane amount of money to compete. I thought 3696 might be it, but I don't think I want to fly with people as close minded as this. I lived through the glow vs electric war and thought it was over. I was so sick of hearing about electric flyers complaining glow guys won't give them room to fly, or glow flyers screaming that we need to get our toys out of their flying area.

Argh. I'm sorry to go off like this, but it just seems ridiculous to me. All this time I wasn't out to prove electric was better. I just wanted to compete with them on equal footing. If Alex or anyone else wants to fly glow, that's their choice. New combat pilots that are dedicated e-flyers will still fly e-powered planes. If they see the glow planes don't really have an advantage, I don't see why it should matter. This is becoming a "this is my ball, and my yard, and if you don't like it go fly in another class" argument that was better left in the 8th grade.

Go ahead and alienate the glow flyers. Go ahead and shoot what may end up being 25% to 45% of your potential competitors. That's the best way to ensure this provisional class never makes it/
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

N, who ever you are. If you like electrics, 3696 is designed for you. If you don`t like the e vs ic war, then don`t even think about flying Es in any RCCA event. They may be legal, but there are those on these forums who will give you nothing but grief for doing it, or even posting about it.

I really don`t care if ICs try to compete in 3696 or not. I`m sure that rules can be adjusted to keep them from running away with the event if needed.

But, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and JJ has good reason for his opinion, believe me.
crash_out
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Post by crash_out »

Sorry, name's Nick. I'm a local guy to Tim and Alex. I was the guy that got 4 cuts in my first ever round at the Jackson SSC event. On glow equipment I might add.

I apologize, I didn't mean to go on a rampage. See, I want to fly scale combat. I might have been able to compete in 2105, but I can't in 2610. For one thing I don't trust myself to pilot a 2.5 pound 100 mph bullet, and I also can't shell out the cash for the e-equipment to do so. There are glow flyers that also want to compete in scale, but can't, for whatever reason, compete in 2610. I can't find any justification for not allowing them in if they can comply with the rules.

If everyone is so dedicated to having an electric only class, then why not go with flying wings? These fly great on a simple, cheap, speed 400. There are MANY designs available, so you aren't catering to a crowd that designs and cuts it's own airframes-anyone with 50 bucks can pick up a Devastator, or Speed Wing, or Unicorn, or any of a number of other designs. My biggest hurdle to 3696 is I can't design or cut my own planes, and they aren't readily available in kit form. Make the standard prop a 6x6 apc and limit the motor to 9000 or 10000 rpms. You could even acheive good figures running Nimh batteries, so you could elminate the potential hazards of lithium. Make them 36 to 48 inch wingspan, and 16-20 ounces. Until someone figures out how to run a cox 049 to those specs, you'll never see anyone trying to shoehorn a glow plane in.

I apologize again, but I don't like the idea of saying someone can't play because they aren't willing to convert to electric. Especially if they are willing to go a little farther than everyone else to do so.
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

Nick, I think you will find plenty of people already doing (Full contact)combat with wings. The big problem with wings are towing streamers, and that is a core part of RCCA style combat. That said It can be done, Slam and I have both used zagi style flying wings to pull streamers in combat.

I think we already have enough classes of combat that we don't need an electric specific class. Yes 3696 was originally designed as an electric only event, however Alex showed us that it can be done with a nitro and not ruin the class. I say let them in.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Scott Stockwell and I am working on the 3696 kit problem. We are getting ready to release a Zero, and will several other kits out next year. For more info on the Zero check out: http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic.asp ... hichpage=3 and http://www.rccombat.com/forum/topic.asp ... hichpage=4
Rabbit Leader
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

I agree, as long as we rmain true to the original core rules-28 ounces, 9x6 prop @9000 rpm, 250 squares max. When i first got into combat I flew the old 704/2105 rules, back when a hopped up 25FP was more than enough power, and it was fun. Didn't take long for that to get fubared. Although I would rather see this class stay electric, if only to keep everything relatively simple, I personally don't care what you hang on the front of a scale fighter, as long as you only run 9000 rpm on a 9-6, and follow the rest of the rules as they are laid out, or hashed out with time. My Brewster has had 4 midairs, the last 2 in one round, and it will take me about an hour to get it airworthy and still look as good as it did before the hits. I like that. I can build small combat scale planes that I can be proud of, and have a reasonably good chance of keeping them airworthy over a years time. Nothing is perfect, and these are not indestructable planes, but their relatievley light mass and 50-55 mph airspeed helps keep the carnage low. Plus, they are a hoot to fly in combat.
If one wants to fly glow in this class , I don't have a problem with it. I guess what we all need to do is to build 'em and fly'em and see who comes out with what, and just see what works, what doesn't and go from there.
Now, who's gonna be the first person to build a Koolhaven FK58?[;)]
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