Park Flier Combat

Here's the place to talk about "Light" electric combat limited to Open designs with brushed motors.

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tmelton
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Park Flier Combat

Post by tmelton »

Hey has anyone tried these new planes out for some park flier combat?

http://members.cox.net/pfcombat/index_f ... ge1271.htm
gsjames
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Post by gsjames »

Good lookin airplanes. They are "conceptually" similar to the things that John Brodie (Irone) and his gang have been flying for a couple of years at Hawk Field. The notable differences being that they build theirs out of Fan-fold-foam or a sheet of white, paper-covered foam board from the Dollar Tree and use a $12.50 BP-21 motor with a 2S 1100-1200 mAh battery. The airframes cost them about $1 vice $59+. Looks like those park flyers have airfoiled wings as opposed to the flat wings on the "TopGun's" the we fly around here. 2DogsRC sells the "TopGun" kits, but you can make your own very easily. The advantage is that since they cost so little, you don't care very much if you bust it. Also, you can build a bunch of them and take them along with you to hand out for others to fly. The Hawk Field Fliers and the 2DogsRC website have recommended rules, but basically, just make 'em 28-32" span and use the BP-21 motor with a 2S LiPo.
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Post by tmelton »

I think the $34 version of the 2dog planes would be perfect as well. I have seen them around. I was thinking the added weight and the air foil wing would make a big improvement in flight. Plus the way the MS Composit planes come so close to being completed and 100% painted it seems like the build would be a breeze. How complete are the 2dog plane kits?

Guess I will have to try both. [:D]
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Post by gsjames »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by tmelton</i>
<br />I think the $34 version of the 2dog planes would be perfect as well. I have seen them around. I was thinking the added weight and the air foil wing would make a big improvement in flight. Plus the way the MS Composit planes come so close to being completed and 100% painted it seems like the build would be a breeze. How complete are the 2dog plane kits?
[:D]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I bought one of the early FFF TopGun planes directly from John. I haven't seen him in awhile since we belong to different clubs, but know that he has been developing the concept for quite awhile. He uses "print-it-yourself" paper stick-ons for the markings and foam-safe spray paint for the coloring. This works particularly well with the whiteboard from Dollar Tree but FFF always has a blue color to it. They are a very good "garage hobby shop" type kit, but not up to the level that you would expect from a major kit manufacturer or from China. John's concept, which appears to be, minimize cost while maximizing fun, lends itself to the use of EPP, Depron, FFF, foamboard or other flat sheet foams.

I'm not convinced that having an airfoiled wing at these speeds and scales makes much of a difference. If I recall correctly, John simply "cambers" the flat sheet and tapers/rounds off the leading and trailing edges and that seems to work very well.

I've not seen the 2DogsRC EPP kits, but I suspect that they include everything you need, except possibly for paint, glue, etc. It only took about an hour to build the FFF version, although you could probably build 2-3 in the same amount of time since most of the time is simply waiting for the 5-minute to cure. The trick is to make posterboard patterns of the parts and then cut out and build 3-5 at a time and throw them in the back of the car so that you always have something to fly and something to share.

The amount of fun for the money can't be beat, and they ARE a LOT of fun, but it's not a substitute for 2548, 3696, or SSC/OpenB

There is a very active local group of TopGun Park combat fliers in Muncie, IN. that fly at the AMA flying site on a regular basis. They have a chat group on YahooGroups. I monitored it for awhile but most of the traffic was of local interest only, so I stopped.

John Brodie monitors and participates in this chat list regularly and I'm sure he can provide more insight.
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Post by tmelton »

Thanks for the info Gary. Thanks for the good leads to more info about the foamie planes. I would like to get this going here in one form or the other. I think it would be a fun way to keep the killer instinct betwen real sanctioned combat events.
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Post by THend »

Todd, I live 3 houses away from a park and school where we could do this.

But YOU have to build all of Butch's planes... or get him to build them himself... LOL!

[:D]

Go fly some combat and then back to AREA-52 for some real work!
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Post by THend »

Todd, nice avatar...
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tmelton
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Post by tmelton »

I really like the idea of getting this type of combat going here locally. I just need to get a couple of kits built up to fly. It would be nice to get two of them built for my son & I to play combat with. I am sure my son and other kids could compete very well with the adults. My son flys his combat Mig very well but I don't trust him to launch it on his own. With the small electrics he could toss it up on his own and get the feel of what chasing streamers is all about. I can't think of a better way to get the kids started in combat.
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Post by tmelton »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by THend</i>
<br />Todd, I live 3 houses away from a park and school where we could do this.

But YOU have to build all of Butch's planes... or get him to build them himself... LOL!

[:D]

Go fly some combat and then back to AREA-52 for some real work!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sounds like a great plan. At least with the flat foamies it would not take long to build a plane for Butch. Then again it does not take long to wreck one either.

I don't have much real work left to do. [:D] I have all my SSC stuff ready to rock and will soon be ready for Open B as well. I just need to decide how serious I am going to be about Open B. I thought maybe just having the one Open B plane and maybe having one scale bird for which ever other class we run in 2009.
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Post by tmelton »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by THend</i>
<br />Todd, nice avatar...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I cracked up while I was getting that avatar ready to post. It's so perfect. I wish I could get it printed well enough to put on all my planes. LOL You will have to show it to Butch sometime.
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Post by gsjames »

Here is a link that I just stumbled across to a "garage kit manufacturer" that is making park fighters that might also work well:

http://www.ddaywarbirds.com/index.shtml
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Post by irone »

Hello Gary,
Your comments are appreciated on the TopGun Parkfighters.
I am glad to hear that you are enjoying them so much. You need to come visit us at Hawk Field sometime so we can turn you on to some E-jet combat fun too.

I have built and tested the pink foam planes like those at ddaywarbirds you mentioned. I think you will find them only good for one midair. Unless covered in packing tape they come apart easily. If covered in packing tape they become too heavy to fly well. We are using the Dollar Tree foamboard on the TopGuns and find it to be very durable and lite................

<b>Irone, AKA John Brodie</b>
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Why not just fly 3696?
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Post by tmelton »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lee Liddle</i>
<br />Why not just fly 3696?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The main reason I was promoting this form of combat was to involve people that were not normally involved in combat. Durable combat planes just don't come in true ARF form. If you can build and fly a 3696 combat plane you are probably prepared to participate in any combat class. I would like to see the guys in our club that fly all electric planes flying combat. I also wanted to see the kids in our club compete with little or no real danger of injury.

I fly combat but my 12 year old son does not. He really wants to cut streamers and run with the adults but it seems like it will be just too hard to do. It takes a bunch of work to get 3 planes for myself ready for each combat event. I don't think I could get 6 ready. Even if I could get his planes ready it would be too big of a distraction to fly combat while monitoring my son's safety during an event. Not to mention any between round repairs and adjustments his planes would need. My son has his own SSC combat Mig. He is just too small to launch his own combat plane but does great while in the air. He flies and lands as well as most adults in our club. Even though he can fly very well I don't trust him to fly combat on his own with a 70 MPH 2.5 pound plane. He is preparing to fly SSC this year with an adult handler helping him. I want a combat plane I can just pass to my son and say "Good luck your on your own now. See ya after combat."

With all that said, I will jot down a few of the reasons why I thought it would be better to use the flat foamies rather than a 3696 plane. You are the expert on this matter. I am truly a total novice so please correct me where I am wrong or misinformed.

<u>Foamie</u>
Easy to build plane (build in less than 5 hours)
EPP is pretty durable
Easy to repair
Replacement cost of battery & motor is only about $100
Less than $300 RTF (motor, battery, ESC, receiver, servos, & kit)
Risk of injury very slight
Easily launched and flown by a 12 year old
Kits readily available all parts can be bought at one shop.

<u>3696 plane</u>
Build time is at least a day at best
Very durable
Easy to repair
Expensive replacement cost for a battery or motor
Priced well over $300 RTF
Risk of injury is the same as any other combat event
A little snappier, quicker, & harder to launch plane than a foamie
Kits are hard to find and require some shopping to get everything
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Todd, I think your summation is pretty close except for a few points.

Good 3696 power components cost.....motors $25, esc $20, battery $20. Almost the same as the park flier types.( a group buy from Hobby City would be a good way to go) One guy or a smart LHS might even step up and stock these units for a small profit)

I`s much safer than regular combat, not the same.

Could be built out of EPP if you wanted too, but not needed for a durable plane.

As far as kits go, yes the kits available are being priced at $60-$70, but scratch building is so easy with these. Wiht what you guys have done with your Mig building parties.... a few guys could get together and cut out 20 kits in a matter of a few hours. You could use the same wing cores and build 3 or 4 different types just by changing the shape of the fuselage and tail feathers.

Advantages of 3696 are these.

It`s like "real" combat. I`ve flown park flier combat and it`s normally just a furball frenzy.

You can have good combat in any winds that SSC combat can be flown in.

With Park fliers, anything over a 10mph wind and you might as well not fly.

It`s a good stepping stone to other RCCA events (same safety lines and combat zone).

Any competant 12 year old pilot could fly without dad`s assistance.(and Dad wouldn`t have to worry)

In general...much more fun than the park fliers. But that`s just IMHO

I`m just saying give it some thought. I`ve done both, and 3696 is much more fun in my eyes.
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