NO: Tapers in Span/Width/Thickness

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MLaBoyteaux
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Post by MLaBoyteaux »

(please, this isn't written to be sarcastic, these are real questions I have)

The question, will a constant chord wing be slower (because of increased drag) than a tapered wing? An absolute answer would be "yes". If there's more drag with the same amount of thrust, the speed will be slower, and that's a fact. I think the wetted area of the wing will have a greater impact on drag than the actual thickness of the wing. I think the only way it could work is if you specified EXACTLY every type of dimension, or better yet, demanded that the planes be built from a spec kit. This is the only way you're going to have a truly equal pool of equipment.

So I have a question, suppose we created a spec class with rigid design dimensions, in an attempt to create a "level" playing field. I've read a plethora of reasons why we want to do this. I get the impression one main reason is to reduce carnage in an attempt to help retain members.

Another reason is to create a class that appeals to so-called "newbies" in an attempt to attract <i>new</i> members to the RCCA. This would provide a class where they're not getting beat because their equipment is inferior or not competitive.

Two reasons that have totally independant objectives. Are we trying to keep members, attract new ones, or shooting for somewhere in the middle?

If the main goal is to use it to attract new members, what do we propose to do to keep exceptionally skilled pilots from flying in this class with spec airplanes and still "slaughtering" the "newbies"? Are skilled pilots going to be banned from the class?

You can specify the equipment, but NO ONE has addressed the human element. You will never be able to level the playing field because there will always be someone who is better than you. Each combat meet can only have one winner. Second place is just the first looser.

I think the hershey bar wing makes a great idea for the type of pilot who is not interested in competition and is strictly in it for sunday afternoon combat. No scores are kept, it's not competitive, it's just for fun.

For the pilot who is interested in competetion, who wants to improve their skills, who wants to see how they stack up against the "big dogs" and is willing to travel to prove it, the current open classes in a national system is where they're going to want to be.

Our task, as I see it, is to figure out how to appeal to BOTH types of pilots and get both of them into the RCCA.


Mark LaBoyteaux
Ft. Worth, Texas
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montague
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Post by montague »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Your own admission is you deal with a decrease in speed while turning and also stalls to some degree.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Actually, I guess I wasn't clear.

Yes, I deal with dropping speed in the turns. Partly from my airfoil choice, partly from wingplanform. I think the airfoil has more of an effect here though, since my 2610 birds also drop speed in the turns if I crank then around hard enough, and they have very tapered wings. I just don't see it as a disadvantage in combat, just part of tactics. (you don't loose very much speed if you don't turn to tight, so the trick is to only turn as tight as you need to, and only for as long as you need to, but I digress). More to the point, I don't think you will see a reduction in speed loss through a turn by going to a thicker airfoil all by itself.

The stalling thing, however is a different issue. The constant chord wing seems to have a softer stall that occurs later than a highly tapered wing, and it recovers from the stall faster, I think. Meaning that the stall properties are actually better than with a tapered wing, at least from a combat perspective.

As for the "fat and strong" vs "thin and disposable", there are two problems with that trade off. First is that I think it's pretty obvious that in the combat crowd, if there is a big performace gain to be had by giving away durability, there will always be people around willing to make that trade, and fly circles around the slower tanks. Second, I'm not at all convinced that the trade off is anywhere near that simple. I think you can probibly go "thin and strong enough".

Mark, you said:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The question, will a constant chord wing be slower (because of increased drag) than a tapered wing? An absolute answer would be "yes". If there's more drag with the same amount of thrust, the speed will be slower, and that's a fact. I think the wetted area of the wing will have a greater impact on drag than the actual thickness of the wing. I think the only way it could work is if you specified EXACTLY every type of dimension, or better yet, demanded that the planes be built from a spec kit. This is the only way you're going to have a truly equal pool of equipment.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The big question isn't will a striaght wing be slower, the big question is how much slower. Given the same wing area, I still think the answer is "not much" or even "not enough to notice in a real combat match". I do agree that you CAN slow things down by going to a spec wing, but as you say, you need to do more than just say "no tapers".

Btw, I don't think anyone wants combat to be totally equal. If you wanted that, just roll some dice or something. Personally, I don't want luck deciding contests, I want pilot skill deciding contests. (well, pilot skill, determination, and preparedness actually, but you get the idea). Better pilots will do better, that's the point.

If someone doesn't like getting beaten by better pilots, they aren't going to stay with flying combat no matter what you do with the rules. (for that matter, they aren't likely to say with any competition, not just combat).

Bottom line on "no tapers":

It won't work by itself. To slow things down, you need to spec more than just a "straight" wing.




Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560
http://www.MidAtlanticCombat.com - Combat in the Mid-Atlantic Region
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