RV 6 , Thank you for the break down on the numbers. For me, that actually makes the fog of this thing a little less dense. That doesn't mean I can see which way to go, but there might be a little crystal ball polish in that data.
NUNC AUT NUNQUAM
Mark V.
The perpetual 'newbie'
Two year trending
Moderator: hbartel
Great numbers.
What this tells me is that SSC is gaining popularity.
B still seems to be fairly strong.
My 2 cents.
When the primary, competitive models were being made of cheap coroplast there was a lot of interest in B just for the novelty and down right cheapness of airplanes. Yeah an occasional servo or RX would get wasted but for the most part we were buying rulers, gutter pipe and cheap coro. Plane cost about $10 - $20 bucks and a couple of evenings of assembly / setup. Cheap planes were also the staple of C/L combat as well. More recently the trend is towards $70 airplanes to be very competitive in Open B. These planes may be quick to build, but they take an extra night or two compared to the old coro planes. It is actually cheaper to build a competitive 2610 plane than an Open B plane. go figure. I just think that the cost and time are having an impact.
Fortunately a few of the guys here still have a good time and good competition with cheap coro planes.
I think a "Cheap and Easy" class would really spark participation more than changing props or 2548 etc.
In short I think the trends reflect a bias towards potentially cheaper and sustainable airframes. SSC is benefitting from the myth of the second S.
jj
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
What this tells me is that SSC is gaining popularity.
B still seems to be fairly strong.
My 2 cents.
When the primary, competitive models were being made of cheap coroplast there was a lot of interest in B just for the novelty and down right cheapness of airplanes. Yeah an occasional servo or RX would get wasted but for the most part we were buying rulers, gutter pipe and cheap coro. Plane cost about $10 - $20 bucks and a couple of evenings of assembly / setup. Cheap planes were also the staple of C/L combat as well. More recently the trend is towards $70 airplanes to be very competitive in Open B. These planes may be quick to build, but they take an extra night or two compared to the old coro planes. It is actually cheaper to build a competitive 2610 plane than an Open B plane. go figure. I just think that the cost and time are having an impact.
Fortunately a few of the guys here still have a good time and good competition with cheap coro planes.
I think a "Cheap and Easy" class would really spark participation more than changing props or 2548 etc.
In short I think the trends reflect a bias towards potentially cheaper and sustainable airframes. SSC is benefitting from the myth of the second S.
jj
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
- Which_way_is_up
- Posts: 1637
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:54 am
- Location: Dallas, Texas
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jj</i>
<br />Great numbers.
What this tells me is that SSC is gaining popularity.
B still seems to be fairly strong.
My 2 cents.
When the primary, competitive models were being made of cheap coroplast there was a lot of interest in B just for the novelty and down right cheapness of airplanes. Yeah an occasional servo or RX would get wasted but for the most part we were buying rulers, gutter pipe and cheap coro. Plane cost about $10 - $20 bucks and a couple of evenings of assembly / setup. Cheap planes were also the staple of C/L combat as well. More recently the trend is towards $70 airplanes to be very competitive in Open B. These planes may be quick to build, but they take an extra night or two compared to the old coro planes. It is actually cheaper to build a competitive 2610 plane than an Open B plane. go figure. I just think that the cost and time are having an impact.
Fortunately a few of the guys here still have a good time and good competition with cheap coro planes.
I think a "Cheap and Easy" class would really spark participation more than changing props or 2548 etc.
In short I think the trends reflect a bias towards potentially cheaper and sustainable airframes. SSC is benefitting from the myth of the second S.
jj
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well I think the standard disclaimer "Your results may vary" is appropriate in this situation. I know of at least three pilots flying in the monthly North Texas Round Robin series that have flown the same plane for almost the entire year in SSC. As opposed to going through as many as five wings in a single Open B event last year. [:0] There a several factors that determine whether or not a pilot has a successful "Survivable" experience with SSC. Flying style and plane design are two very important ones. I see lots of folks that just fly blindly in furball style circles or constantly turning 180 degrees back into another plane. Tactics equivalent to walking across a busy freeway with your eyes closed. No plane "survives" very long before getting T-boned under those circumstances. I've seen two champion pilots(AJ & Eric) with their pursuit style flying go a season of <b>Open B </b>with six plane or less.
The solution is not necessarily cheap, easy to (constantly) repair planes but also flying technique. There never will be a class that will eliminate the effects of bad pilot flying.[}:)][:o)]
<hr noshade size="1">
"Tail end Charlie"
Matthew 7:6
<b>Cobra and Smack II Kits at</b> http://www.texascombat.com
<br />Great numbers.
What this tells me is that SSC is gaining popularity.
B still seems to be fairly strong.
My 2 cents.
When the primary, competitive models were being made of cheap coroplast there was a lot of interest in B just for the novelty and down right cheapness of airplanes. Yeah an occasional servo or RX would get wasted but for the most part we were buying rulers, gutter pipe and cheap coro. Plane cost about $10 - $20 bucks and a couple of evenings of assembly / setup. Cheap planes were also the staple of C/L combat as well. More recently the trend is towards $70 airplanes to be very competitive in Open B. These planes may be quick to build, but they take an extra night or two compared to the old coro planes. It is actually cheaper to build a competitive 2610 plane than an Open B plane. go figure. I just think that the cost and time are having an impact.
Fortunately a few of the guys here still have a good time and good competition with cheap coro planes.
I think a "Cheap and Easy" class would really spark participation more than changing props or 2548 etc.
In short I think the trends reflect a bias towards potentially cheaper and sustainable airframes. SSC is benefitting from the myth of the second S.
jj
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Well I think the standard disclaimer "Your results may vary" is appropriate in this situation. I know of at least three pilots flying in the monthly North Texas Round Robin series that have flown the same plane for almost the entire year in SSC. As opposed to going through as many as five wings in a single Open B event last year. [:0] There a several factors that determine whether or not a pilot has a successful "Survivable" experience with SSC. Flying style and plane design are two very important ones. I see lots of folks that just fly blindly in furball style circles or constantly turning 180 degrees back into another plane. Tactics equivalent to walking across a busy freeway with your eyes closed. No plane "survives" very long before getting T-boned under those circumstances. I've seen two champion pilots(AJ & Eric) with their pursuit style flying go a season of <b>Open B </b>with six plane or less.
The solution is not necessarily cheap, easy to (constantly) repair planes but also flying technique. There never will be a class that will eliminate the effects of bad pilot flying.[}:)][:o)]
<hr noshade size="1">
"Tail end Charlie"
Matthew 7:6
<b>Cobra and Smack II Kits at</b> http://www.texascombat.com
I flew combat the day before I got laid off. Didn't have time or money after that though I did do one demo down at the MWSC and having not played for so long, took advantage of beginners luck. Got horny again this last month, got my dagger out because the local boys still play C class at the nights field on Friday nights, showed up at the field and it was the first week that they had stopped the Friday night fights for the year.
Just my luck I guess.
Unless there is something to be offered other than just the fellowship, which I highly prized but just couldn't afford, I'll just be playing with the local boys from time to time.
Don't get me wrong about the RCCA dues, I'm used to buying my friends.
<img src="http://www.northlandflyer.com/pics/mrclean.jpg" border=0>
From somewhere near Parkville, MO
Mr Clean
Just my luck I guess.
Unless there is something to be offered other than just the fellowship, which I highly prized but just couldn't afford, I'll just be playing with the local boys from time to time.
Don't get me wrong about the RCCA dues, I'm used to buying my friends.
<img src="http://www.northlandflyer.com/pics/mrclean.jpg" border=0>
From somewhere near Parkville, MO
Mr Clean
Agree about flying style / technique, but you can be flying pursuit and still get T-boned.
I have an Open B Bandit that is on its third season with the same wing. Only needed two open B planes to finish the whole year and fly every round.
My point is more towards cost and time. I think that lower cost faster to build airplanes will help participation.
I still enjoy B, 2610 and SSC, but I just recognize our club probably lost a few members to the rebuild issue.
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
I have an Open B Bandit that is on its third season with the same wing. Only needed two open B planes to finish the whole year and fly every round.
My point is more towards cost and time. I think that lower cost faster to build airplanes will help participation.
I still enjoy B, 2610 and SSC, but I just recognize our club probably lost a few members to the rebuild issue.
jj
RCCA 579
AMA 90443
Mile-Hi Combat Squadron
"last a whole season"
"one airplane lasted 3 seasons".
Hmm. What's a season for you? jj, I see you have 29 rounds total posted in NPS for this year so far. Mostly B, with some SSC tossed in.
Lee Liddle has 94 rounds of SSC alone. That's 3 times the "season" in just one class.
Last year, I posted 195 rounds total in A, B, 2610, and SSC classes. I'm looking at a little less this year, since had some contests out here cancelled for various reasons, I'll only have about 140 by the end of the year.
My point being that measuring durability by how many "seasons" a plane lasts is bogus, since "season" is such a random measurement.
Now, I've had planes last multiple contests, 12+ rounds on a single wing. I've also had airframes last less than 3min in to their first heat before being totaled. I think we all have been through all that.
I started tracking mid-airs this year by class. It's kinda interesting.
I'm thinking next year that I might start putting serial numbers on all my wings and fuses, and track what rounds they see action in. To get REAL hard data on mean time before destruction on my gear. Enough of the guesswork and such, time for some real numbers.
Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560
http://www.MidAtlanticCombat.com - Combat in the Mid-Atlantic Region
"one airplane lasted 3 seasons".
Hmm. What's a season for you? jj, I see you have 29 rounds total posted in NPS for this year so far. Mostly B, with some SSC tossed in.
Lee Liddle has 94 rounds of SSC alone. That's 3 times the "season" in just one class.
Last year, I posted 195 rounds total in A, B, 2610, and SSC classes. I'm looking at a little less this year, since had some contests out here cancelled for various reasons, I'll only have about 140 by the end of the year.
My point being that measuring durability by how many "seasons" a plane lasts is bogus, since "season" is such a random measurement.
Now, I've had planes last multiple contests, 12+ rounds on a single wing. I've also had airframes last less than 3min in to their first heat before being totaled. I think we all have been through all that.
I started tracking mid-airs this year by class. It's kinda interesting.
I'm thinking next year that I might start putting serial numbers on all my wings and fuses, and track what rounds they see action in. To get REAL hard data on mean time before destruction on my gear. Enough of the guesswork and such, time for some real numbers.
Kirk Montague Adams
RCCA 560
http://www.MidAtlanticCombat.com - Combat in the Mid-Atlantic Region
Yes seasons are not a good metric, but in Texas it seems that practically every event is sanctioned and counts towards NPS, whereas up here only about every 4th meet or so has a sanction. The Bandit that has survived three seasons was probably flown for almost half of the rounds of combat I've flown. So we should really be talking how many sorties per plane. This plane and wing has survived well over 50 rounds. Perhaps even more like 75. Even though I flew it last weekend I am going to finally retire it. The foam is getting mushy in some parts. Covering the wing in Kevlar probably helped its survivability a good deal. I also have never dirt napped the plane at full throttle which is why most planes don't survive.
Anyway, the point is not that I happen to have been fortunatel with that plane but rather that building / re-building too much keeps particpation down.
Having a plane that you can always bring out to a meet that is competitive means you can always show up. That is what we need to get to increase overall participation.
Anyway, the point is not that I happen to have been fortunatel with that plane but rather that building / re-building too much keeps particpation down.
Having a plane that you can always bring out to a meet that is competitive means you can always show up. That is what we need to get to increase overall participation.
That wing is still flying.[:p] It is no longer attached to my old Bandit but I sold a GoDevil and gave Quad that wing as a backup. Seems that the other week his primary wing got hosed and he flew the rest of the event with that wing.
Just found it funny that one wing has flown through so many contests (even though most were not NPS events) on so many planes and now by multiple pilots.
I wish I had the exact way I built that wing because even though the kevlar was expensive compared to most coverings, it sure has seemed to make that wing nearly indestructable, and my planes are always a few ounces under on weight. hmmmm
Just found it funny that one wing has flown through so many contests (even though most were not NPS events) on so many planes and now by multiple pilots.
I wish I had the exact way I built that wing because even though the kevlar was expensive compared to most coverings, it sure has seemed to make that wing nearly indestructable, and my planes are always a few ounces under on weight. hmmmm
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