New to combat

If you're new to combat, you probably have a bunch of question. Check here first, 'cuz its most likely been asked before. (..and there's no such thing as a stupid question).

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Advent
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New to combat

Post by Advent »

Hello,

I am thinking about getting started in combat. I have joined my local club, FreeState Aeromodelers, in Maryland and the guys at the club have been a great help.

One problem I am having is what class to sart in? Right now I have a
SPAD Debute with a old OS FP .25 on it. I keep in the truck just in case I can stop by the field during the weekday and fly.

I have all the materials to build with coroplast, but I have been told that this might be to heavy. I can also work with foam, however
I have not built a bow to cut wings.

I like the looks of the scale planes like Kirk's Awsome flying Firebrand, but wonder if I should start in another class first?

Do most of you scratch build the scale planes or buy foam kits?

Thanks for the help.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

The short answer on "what to buy/build" is to see what your local guys are flying. The classes that are flown locally vary within the states, with some being more popular than others. Kirk is from Maryland, and I'm sure he can advise you on what to build.

The other thing to consider is your flying skills. SSC uses .15s, and is generally 50-60 mph. Open B uses .25-.30s, and is 75+. 2610 uses up to .26, and is fast or faster than Open B. 2548 is a new scale WW2 fighter class with 48" wings and .25s, and is in the SSC speed range.

There are several combat fliers who kit their planes: http://www.rccombat.com/sections/manufa ... turers.htm has an add page, plus [url="mailto:twelveoclockhigh@comcast.net"]Roy Appleton[/url] kits Lee Liddle's SSC Cobra. There are other folks building and selling kits, and I'm sure they will jump in here to help you.

Welcome to the combat fraternity!

Ed Kettler
RCCA VP
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

If the 25fp is your only combat engine, I would suggest limited B or possibly open B. I would also have you get with Kirk and see about cutting some wings from foam. To enter any other event would require a new engine unless you wanted to try scale 2548 and I would not suggest that amout of extra build time for a newbie. Build at least 4 ships during the building season that would qualify for limited b/open b. You would have a speed disadvantage in open b but have more meets to fly in with the same planes. Flying time is what is needed to get better.
Advent
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Post by Advent »

I am going to get a Webbra or some other bearing engine
once I figure out what class to fly in....

I had some time today and played around with a foam and spar
fuss for the Debute, it looks like I can get it down to 2 pounds
12 oz. with standard 148 servo's... I am going to pick up a few
micro's.... I was thinking Hitec HS55 for throttle, and HS81's
for the elevator and ailerons. Are those ok?
Advent
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Post by Advent »

Open B sounds like a good starting point, and I think that is the
most popular class at our field/area. Can you recamend a good plane
for open B class?

Scratch built or Kit is ok.
Bad Dawg
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Post by Bad Dawg »

Kirk designs, builds and flys some very capable B planes. Get with him. He cuts lots of foam and I am sure he would be glad to cut a few extra sets of parts at a reasonable price. And if he thinks his designs might not be just right for you, he'll tell you so and give you some suggestions. When it comes to [?]"issues" [?]that come up when getting into RC Combat, Kirk has been there and done that. He has been down the blind alleys and found some pretty dependable routes to success. One word of advice. If you are going to practice heats with Kirk, he is as good a combat flyer as he is a designer/builder. He goes for the jugular in the air. [}:)] I don't think he could stop himself from going for the kill if he were flying against his mother-in-law and his wife was standing behind him with a baseball bat.[xx(] That also means you will get better than most of us if you stick with it.[8D]
aseaholm
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Post by aseaholm »

Advent,

If I were in your shoes, I’d do like Mark has suggested and get with Kirk Adams. Kirk has very competitive designs, knows how to set them up for combat, and is a very accomplished pilot. Using the knowledge of someone that has been there and is willing to teach, is a great asset. He’ll keep you from making some of the same mistakes and get up to speed a lot faster.

I have a couple articles you may enjoy. Once you read these, if join the RCCA you’ll have access to a bunch of other great tactics and technique articles. It’s $15 well spent.

http://www.teamseaholm.com/rccombat/aerial.htm

http://www.teamseaholm.com/rccombat/ground.htm

Good luck…

A.J. Seaholm
THend
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Post by THend »

Hook up with your local combat junkies, and follow thier lead. Hanging with those who have been there and done that will save you countless hours, days, and for some years of development. You might feel like new shark bait for a while, but everything changes once you get a few cuts! Welcome aboard!
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

I strongly urge you to avoid the HS81 for anything other than throttle, it is an extremely easy servo to strip. The HS 81MG is much more strip-resistant, but costly. Some folks have had reliability (electronic) problems with the HS81, but I have dozens of them and have never had a problem. The HS85MG has an excellent reputation for reliability, but is expensive, and for reasons I certainly cannot explain, has ONE plastic gear in the geartrain which, IMHO, still strips too easily. Most Hitec standard plastic-gear servos strip rather easily, if you get Hitecs, get the ones with the "KARBONITE" gears, they are MUCH more strip-resistant. Futaba platic-gear servos are pretty strip-resistant. You can get standard-size servos pretty cheap, and they are very reliable and robust, you might want to consider sticking with std servos on ail and elevator- since you are just starting out, the 2 ounce penalty will likely not be noticeable. Go ahead and use a mini on throttle. 300 mah NiMh Rx batteries are cheap and a great weight savings. The problem is there is really not a good, reliable, robust, cheap mini servo- all the minis that I know of have one or more drawbacks. The only drawback to std servos is a modest weight penalty which, at least in the beginning, will not be a major hindrance. The Hitec Electron 6 is an excellent, lightweight Rx. The Webra is an outstanding and powerful engine, but a bit finicky on the needle- you might consider an OS 25FX, which is reliable and user-friendly in the extreme. Kirk is very helpful and knowledgeable and will be able to give you a lot of excellent guidance.
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Which_way_is_up
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Post by Which_way_is_up »

I know that Scott is going to think that I'm picking on him again (it's a little thing he and I have) but I don't agree that the battery is the place to try and save weight. Since we fly a lot of combat here in Texas I've seen several incidences of planes dirtnapping (fortunately without injury) because of dead batteries. A lot of us use AAA 700mah battery packages that are very light and I can't imagine that there's much weight savings between an old 350mah NiCad pack and the newer 700mah Nimh packs with twice the capacity.

Just my .02
Bad Dawg
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Post by Bad Dawg »

But I'll second Scott's engine recomendation. I don't have a Webra, but the OS 25fx is as powerful as you really need, and very easy to operate.
montague
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Post by montague »

Boy, you guys really know how to raise expectations, don't you [:D]

Now Mark, I do know how to take it easy on a new guy, and I've done it several times. The last thing I'd do is target a first-timer right off at the start of round 1. But I don't think you've ever seen me do that. Espeicaly since I like to find you first in the round, since if I don't get you early, you don't seem to be around towards the end of the heat.

While I love the Webra's I have, if I could only have 1 engine at a contest, it would be the OS FX. I think the Webra is a bit fragile.

For servos, I personaly use hitech hs-81's on throttle, and cheap $10 standard servos on elevator and aileron in B and SSC, and even some A class planes. Actually, I usually spring for the $12BB servos, the hitec 4xx series, but I have used the cheaper bushed servos as well. I also have a pile of JR 517 and 537's that I use, but I'm actually phasing them out. Some of my A wings have an HS-85MG for ailerons, and my Firebrands in 2610 have HS-85MG's on elevator and a pair of them on ailerons, or a pair of HS-81MG's. Anyway, the point is that you can save money by using inexpensive servos.

For batteries, I use 300mah packs myself. I have about half nicad and half Nimh at this point, and I'm phasing out the nicads. But I also have a field charger (actually, I have 2), and I never run the same plane more than 2 heats in a row with out a recharge. (this is helped by the fact that it seems rare for me to be able to fly the same plane in 3 heats in a row anyway). If you don't have a field charger, you'll want a full size pack.

For B class airframes, you're more than welcome to see what I have, I even have a bunch of already cut cores. But my B ship is pretty medicore, too many compromises. I plan to totally redesign it over the winter (if I have time, so many projects, so little time).

Most of the B ships around here are bigger than the 48" wing spads, making the spads not terribly competitive, though as a first plane it's not necessarily a bad thing and there are a couple of guys who fly them who show up at some of the contests. There are also a couple of 48" Predators around as well. But the Panther and other planes becoming more common. I think most guys go with a kit for their first foam plane, and if they like it, they copy it or get parts cut from any of the various sources.
Advent
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Post by Advent »

Thanks for all the great repies,

Engine - Looks like OS is a popular choice, but I will wait
until I decide what class before purchasing one.
Sevo's - No problem with standard servo's, I have about 10
laying around.
Plane - I have been looking around and I understand that the
spads don't seem as popular, that is a shame since they
are so easy to build. I really do not like the looks of
the long wing ssc and open b planes. I really do like the
scale planes. I understand the scale planes are a bit more
work, but i am leaning that way. I think and talk about it
some more before deciding.
Advent
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Post by Advent »

Boy did I butcher that reply.... next time I will preview it! ;)
Advent
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Post by Advent »

Back to class/plane choice for a moment...
I used to race 1/8th scale gas cars with Earl in the Mid Atlantic
region. Now that I have 3 kids under 3 years old I will not have
time to attend combat meets on a regular basis.. My wife tricked
me.... think twins! ;)

So the plane I choose for combat will double as a plane that is
keeped in my truck during the work week for those days when I
have an hour or two to kill. A 68-72" wing will be hard to
store in the truck. I like the 51" span war planes like the
TA 152 on the JK Aeroteck web site, both for looks and ease of
storage in the truck.

Thanks again.
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