Historical State Participation


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lightning
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Post by lightning »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jj</i>
<br />snip............The building aspect is also why I've been a big advocate of just one class per type of event (Open B for open, SSC for limited and 2548 for scale). Much as I'd prefer 2610, If we get too spread out we will divide and conquer ourselves.[B)]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Amen JJ, Amen. Don't know about everyone else but trying to chase five classes (six if you count 1/2A) spreads me too thin!!
jfromm
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Post by jfromm »

Lightning,

You can use a litle thinning.
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lightning
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Post by lightning »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by jfromm</i>
<br />Lightning,

You can use a litle thinning.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">Arf,arf,arf [xx(][xx(]
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

The following information was derived from the NPS data base and is current as of 12/17/2005. The first table shows the contests by class held during 2001-2005.
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The following table shows contests of all types held by state for the same period. At the bottom is a list of states where we lost a CD during the year.
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sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

I know the topic is state participation, but since the topic of number of rounds in a contest has been brought up repeatedly, I'd like to weigh in and say that I would not travel a long way (ie 4+ hours) for 4 rounds, it's not worth it in my mind. any contest I've been to where we've finished up on the early side and done a straw poll "who wants to fly more rounds," the response is generally unanimous to fly more. Guys have brought the gear and planes, they're already covered with oil and sticky stuff, let's fly! for local/informal meets/scrambles, fewer rounds and 1/2 a day is fine.

I agree we have too many classes. Somebody pick which one(s) to drop, and tell the guys who are digging that/those classes why it's going away! 1/2A is the latest and probably most useless (ie not filling any clearly defined need) class yet the guys who have flown it pretty much universally LOVE it to death! If it's too much of a load to carry all the classes, don't fly them all. I don't like it much either, Brian and I fly in all of them and it bites from a workshop standpoint. but if combat is going on, we want to fly it, and if you wanna play, you gotta pay! It was, indeed, easier back in the days of 2610 and Open B, period. if we wanted to go back to that, I'd be fine with it. But I seem to recall we perceived a falling off in enthusiasm which drove the creation of additional classes to try to fix it. So apparently only two classes isn't the answer either!!!

My opinion of the answer is we need to come to grips with two conflicting desires. One is the hard core competitors like a lot of performance and a lot of cuts. The other is we want to attract newcomers so we have people to share the fun with. As performance and skill escalate, many potential newcomers with moderate skills see it and say "no way, I'm not a good enough pilot and I can't build/tune engines to that level of performance" and they stay away. The days of hooking several guys a year who built a couple of SPADS are mostly gone. Therefore I believe we need to moderate our cut-throat instincts and lower the barriers to entry for the potential newcomers. That is why I support limited performance classes with easy to build airframes. It helps level the playing field and makes it easier for a newbie to get involved.
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

In our arguments, amongst ourselves, we tend to forget that there are only 200 of us left and that we are not attracting more folks into combat.

I understand that if you travel 400 miles to a contest you want to fly as much as possible. I also understand that if you are going to travel 400 miles, fly eight rounds, and want to fly every time start combat is called you are going to bring 4 to six planes with you. New pilots, getting into organized combat, I think are put off by having to invest the time and money into so many planes.

It seems to me we would attract more pilots, closer to our home fields, if we required fewer planes and less building time. Instead of driving 200-600 miles maybe we should think through what would create contests in our own cities?

Maybe they wouldn't be attended by the hard core point chasers coming from far away, but is that a particularly bad thing?

The limits to combat participation have been stressed many times for many years: amount of building, number of planes, availability of sites and CDs to hold contests, low participation, etc. Why don't we consciously try to remove some of the obstacles we are placing in our own way?

As an example, I'd like to try a contest geared to attract pilots from 50 miles or less. Here is how I would set it up:

<ul><li>Pick an NPS class to fly </li><li>Contest would last half day (10am - 12 noon) </li><li>Entrants limited to two airplanes </li></ul>

Then promote the heck out of it in hobby shops, going to club meetings, and getting mentions in club newsletters.

You might call this a minor league contest for folks considering moving up to the majors. I believe there are a heck of lot more minor leaguers than there are players in the show. But, they are all players, and that is a good thing.
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Post by Fred420 »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">fly eight rounds, and want to fly every time start combat is called you are going to bring 4 to six planes with you. New pilots, getting into organized combat, I think are put off by having to invest the time and money into so many planes.
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My first combat I went with 1 "Bat" and 1 extra wing. I knew I would not be competive, but I was there to learn and experience it. I only made 4 out of 8 rounds into the air, yet I was hooked. Now I have 2 Battle Axe's ready for Jackson. You only tear up so many planes by being very aggressive, that is how Brian and Mark get 5-6 cut rounds. Good flying ability plus no fear of damage.

Investing time into building any plane is not a factor, IMHO, if you enjoy your hobby. You just plan for it. Buy a Battle Axe and you will have minumum build time. Good Plug [:p] 2 complete planes flown with controled aggression can get you through a days worth of combat. Most of the time [^]


Dave
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Dave,
I can make your argument stick with 200 fellow RCCA members, instead of the 350 we had two years ago.

I too build plenty of planes and don't mind doing it, but maybe there are other ways to get more people flying combat than telling them they need to build 4-6 planes and travel 200 miles or more to go to a contest.

Maybe there isn't any other way and that we will have to accept that there are only 200 RC pilots in the country who enjoy combat enough to participate in organized contests.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

We need to figure out how to grow locally. Lee and Bob have done a great job in Ft Worth in growing a new crop of pilots by having casual combat at Greater South West, then getting the guys to their first contests with the skills needed to be successful.

We also need to keep our CDs happy. Without CDs we don't have contests. We need to help grow CDs and help them run the contests. Roll streamers, get the prizes, distribute fliers, handle the paperwork and tech inspection, etc. Everybody doing their bits made getting the Lone Star Nationals moved and run this year possible; I couldn't do it myself given my international travel schedule without help from Roy, Cash, Lee, Bob and others.

Promoting combat means contacting the local clubs and volunteering to do programs at monthly meetings. I haven't found a club that is overflowing with ideas for monthly programs. This weekend at the Richardson club open house we are doing a combat demo with our 2548 planes to attract new pilots but also build support within the club, which is critical for getting events scheduled. I also help out at other club events so I have 'invested' in the club, rather than being a 'user'.

I have also created templates for fliers and a descriptive trifold brochure. If anyone wants copies, please email me.

I have a start on the populations by state from 1997 - 2005 analysis, but it is pretty manpower intensive to work through because of the need to make decisions on what years a member was active (e.g. joined in 4th quarter usually means did not fly until the following year, but joined in 2nd quarter means could fly in 2 combat years). Should be done this week.
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o1moregil
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Post by o1moregil »

Here in West Texas (Midland /Odessa area)I have offered to cut wings for any pilot thats inerested in combat at no cost in our monthly meetings (JUST BRING YOUR OWN FOAM type of thing). its kinda hard for just one person to promote the sport, I think you need at least two guys at it, like Lee and Bob are doing in Dallas. Theres a Combat Pilot that recently moved into town and hopfully we can team up soon and grow the sport together in this area, if thats ok with him. Who knows, maybe we can get a cuple of guys in this heart pumping rc sport .
Rabbit Leader
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Also guys, remember that a couple of years ago, combat was the "newest thing" going, at least in the mind of most modelers. I can just about guarantee you that a lot of the guys that came and went in a year or two are flying 3d, pylon, etc, and will tire of that and move on again. I firmly believe that 100-150 members represent our core group..the people that love combat and would fly it everyday if they could. That's probably going to be a fairly stable number. If you bring in "x" amount of new pilots a year, and we can retain a good number, then we grow. If not, then we remain a small but enthusiastic band of pilots who know and respect one another, and have a heck of a lot of fun to boot...count yer blessings guys.

We might flame away at each other occasionally, but we're family..dig it?

Cash
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Oh yeah..one other thing, except for Greg Rose's column, and the Internet, we get very little press...Monster Nation's cool, but a monthly column and articles works also..just a thought. Next time ya'll see Greg, THANK the man for the job he's doing..

Cash
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lou Melancon</i>
<br />I too build plenty of planes and don't mind doing it, but maybe there are other ways to get more people flying combat than telling them they need to build 4-6 planes and travel 200 miles or more to go to a contest.
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Lou,

Tell them to get one combat plane and that you a couple of combat fliers in your club will fly with them the next Sa* * * *ay.

Just because someone holds a contest for something doesn't mean everyone will want to start flying that event.

We will gain new pilots at the field on a normal weekend, over time, not just because there is a contest.

A new combat flier can buy an airplane, put a stock engine on it, be very competitive, and fly 8 rounds with one or two airplanes. All that's left for us to do is to work with the prospective combat fliers over time to build up their interest.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Some explanation is required because this is not as straight forward as it appears, and some discrepancies are included.

1. If the member joined after 1 October, they were counted as part of the next year. This is because most combat stops once the white stuff falls north of the Mason Dixon line.

2. A decision was made based on the paid up date how far to extend the membership year. For exammple, if the dates were April 1 03 to April 1 04, the membership was deemed to be in 2003. If the paid up date was June 1 04, then they got 2003 and 2004 credit. I am not sure how membership dates got entered prior to my joining, but not all of them were close to full years, so I had to use some judgement.

3. That being said, here is promised data:

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jj
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Post by jj »

Ed,

Great data. Exactly what I was hoping for. I don't think we need a lot more crunching as this tells a pretty good story already.

What I see is some churn but relatively stable numbers after the initial bump from a new type of event. Not bad really.

Gil, that new guy in Midland is my brother Vic. I'm sure you two can start building up some momentum for combat in the middle of .... a lot of unobstructed area to fly in. [:p]

While I've said my bit once already on non-proliferation I'm pretty happy with the main events as they've settled out. SSC was developed in response to a more limited class and it is incredibly successful. While not my favorite class, I do enjoy it (especially in air rich lower altitudes) and it appears to be doing great. And while I have liked 2610, I'll promote 2548 as it is great to see all the planes in relatively the same size. The reduced wing area also keeps things towards pusuit, especially up here. Of course B is a blast.

In CO we've grown a bit and while we lost one CD I think we grew two back in his place so we're up by one. We have focused on local events and helping newby's out and it has worked. We all like the sanctioned NPS events, but growth has come from mainly local oriented events. At the local events we probably spend more time on any new pilot's planes and getting them going than we do on our own planes. Our local events are held 12-4 to avoid encroaching on prime flying time at our clubs.

And on a standard weekend day I've found it great to introduce people to R/C with combat planes. These make great second airplanes. They fly well, use little fuel and are very tough. Just what a novice is looking for in an airplane. And not having landing gear doesn't make their ummm landings look all that bad.

I've found, perhaps by luck, that two planes (maybe 3 for B) is plenty. You know that in Pylon you are limited to 2 planes per event.

Maybe we should try a 2 or 3 plane limit per event?
A good thing about a proposal like that is that noone needs to re-build or change anything. It also evens things out for the pilots who can't afford the time or money to have 4 or 5 planes. And while it may occasionally knock someone out of top place due to a few bad mishaps, that might give newby's a chance at placing just due to a bit of luck. That might provide more encouragement. The top pilots will still get their share of trophys, but this might add some variety and challenge to the mix. Might even reduce damage if you know you've only got one plane left to make it through 5 rounds. Also, less to tech etc.

Maybe a variant of
SSC & 2548 2 planes up to 6 rounds, 3 for 7 or more .
Open B 2 planes up to 5 rounds, 3 for 6 or more.

Of course I got a stack of planes, but this might be worth tyring out if people think it might encourage new participation.

hmmmmm.
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