Historical State Participation


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jj
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Historical State Participation

Post by jj »

I don't have the history of RCCA membership and I'm not sure how good of an indicator that is for particcipation, but I'd sure like to see any growth or decline trends by state. There are more combat pilots than RCCA members but this is the best gauge we have to work with.

What I noticed though is that RCCA membership has little to do with general state population. From eyballing the data it looks like:

TX 26
GA 21
WI 15
OH 13
CA 13
FL 12
CO 10
MD 8
MO 8
MI 7
ID 6
IN 5
OK 5
NC 5
NY 4
VA 4
CT 4
MN 4
TN 4
NV 3
NE 3
IL 3
KY 2
KS 1
OR 1
MT 1

Sorry if I mis-counted or missed any state.

Is there any significant trend information available?

Is participation changing evenly or changing more in particular states and if so how?
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

I did some analysis last year. Let me see if I can dig up the spreadsheet. Of note in the SW is the loss of AZ.
Don Pruitt
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Post by Don Pruitt »

As shown in the below chart, combat in GA indicates a steady growth from 2001 to 2006.

Image

There are some represented on this chart that have never flown any combat. However, on the other hand there are about six combat flyers in the local area that regularly compete but are not members of RCCA. Of the twenty one RCCA members in GA only nine actively fly combat. So, while the chart indicates that we have growth, in reality we do not and we are loosing active combat flyers faster that they are being replaced.

In the past four to six years we have had two clubs in GA that host combat events. Starting in 2007 we may only have one or maybe none. A couple of years ago I could expect to have about twenty people sign up for a combat event. At my last contest we had thirteen. Considering the cost of putting on a contest, with sanction fees, streamers, trophies and lunch that was just about the financial break-even point. When the club starts to loose money on the deal, that’s when they will no longer allow combat events to be held. When that happens, as far as the RCCA is concerned, combat will die an immediate death in GA. We will still have club level combat and probably will fly a few rounds every weekend, but there will be no sanctioned contest.
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Post by Web-Pilot »

Don,

Good work on the chart and the insight.

Before JJ and I joined the RCCA, there were either 2 or 3 RCCA members in the state, I can't remember exactly which. Only one of those members remains on the books, and he does not fly combat, or any RC aircraft anymore from what I have heard. So that means that 90% of the current RCCA members in the state have been members of the RCCA 5 years or less.

When JJ and I joined the RCCA, there were two clubs hosting RCCA events, ours was not one of them. I started hosting RCCA events and Airpark Elite started a couple of years later. Both of the clubs that hosted events 5 years ago do not host them now. We had three active clubs for about 2 years, but time takes its toll.

The RCCA combat in the state is localized now to the Denver Metro Area, and both clubs that host events are in the Aurora area. We do have a few combat pilots that come down from Boulder for club meets and occasionally for a sanctioned event as well.

Some have come, and some have gone, but overall in the last 5 years we have seen a growth in RC combat in the metro area. My second RCCA contest we had 13 pilots with 6 being from out of state. My last contest, we had 14 pilots including 1 from out of state. I think this shows a slow growth in the area. Now most of the pilots at an event are RCCA members, where it was mostly just JJ and I when we started.

I don't have the hard and fast numbers to show the trends, but it looks to me like we are having slow growth of RC combat. I won't say it is steady, as it has been up and down with it being up at the moment.

We have only lost money on one contest at Mile Hi. We do not make a lot of money, but then I don't host the combat meets to make a lot of money. I figure if I can cover the expenses and put a few dollars into the club coffers, then it is good. We do not buy expensive plaques, but rather give out framed certificates and cash. Giving Cash for awards does a couple of things for us. One it is flexible. If I get more pilots, I can pass out more cash. If we run short of pilots for an event (this has happened a couple of times with scale events) I am not out for the expensive plaques or trophies. Plaques and trophies are more impressive, but also are more expensive and would require more pilots to cover the costs. Lunch is available for a reasonable fee, and I expect the person putting on the lunch to break even or make a few dollars for the club. I tr to keep the entry fees reasonable, but with the costs of streamers, paper and other things, it is difficult.

Hope this helps. This is a good thread for discussion. It will be interesting to see how other areas compare to one another. I hope a lot of other areas chime in so we can all learn from each other.

George
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Post by boiler »

In Ohio we only had the Hamilton club putting on regular combat events. The Emperor put on one my first year of flying but didn't repeat it due to field problems. Last year Bryan Ohio put on an unsanctioned/unclassified fun combat event the day after Hamilton and a lot of us had planes left over to fly on Sunday. This year I'm putting on our club's first SSC combat meet this Saterday near Lima ohio and Bryan Ohio is holding a sanctioned open/limited b event on Sunday. Bryan said they may hold some more this year but we can't due to growing crops. I may be able to locate another location and would try to work out a date with the Bryan guys so contestants could enjoy 2 days of flying near each other again. Our club will have plaques to 5th place and the lunch is included. I'm not sure about the awards at Bryan but their entry fee is less with a reasonable priced lunch. I hope to have a money making raffle at our meet. I will discuss it with my members tonight at our regular meeting. I will also take a head count on how may would like to judge so I can get more hard hats if needed. I have a member to take registration and run the raffle if we hold it. Another member will be tech inspector and line marshal. Another will be cooking and running the consesion. I hope to get some of the younger guys to the meet to see how much fun we have flying combat. If so I can train them to be tugs like myself. We could travel together to some meets so I would have company and someone to share the cost of gas.
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Post by jj »

George,

You forgot the guy that is probably leading our local scoring this year and is giving Long-Haul a run for his money. Randy Hodges makes it up from the Springs for every event.

BTW, Kudos and I mean Huge kudos to Web-Pilot, George Kerr for his steady promotion and support of combat in Colorado. He has done and is doing an outstanding job in promoting this activity as well as a lot of the charitable and community oriented work that our club does.

Others like Randy, Tom Neff, Alan... help out lots too!

We lost the Sterling gang and miss Marv and crew, and we haven't heard much from Longmont lately, but The colorado Front Range from Boulder to the Springs (not counting Scott from Utah!!!) have been well represented and growing slightly each year. While we only hold 4 or 5 sanctioned events per year we have club combat the first Sa* * * *ay of every month (unless it conflicts with a sanctioned event).

In other parts of the country is the emphasis on sanctioned or non-sanctioned events?

Does that make a difference in participation?
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Post by RH »

George and jj, I tip my hat to you guys for getting combat going in our area and maintaining it [:)] This is the greatest motorsport I have ever participated in and it's the people who make it great [8D]

All my life I have been involved in a competitive motorsport of some type or another. I went straight from trainers to combat. The first meet I came to at Mile-Hi hooked me good - even though I stuck my finger in the prop of that .15FP [:0]

It has been a priviledge to compete with you guys and I will continue to do what I can to advance our sport and grow our numbers just because of my selfish desires to compete against more pilots [:p]

IMO we need to be targeting the young kid who still relies on a willing Daddy's wallet and Suburban to get him to meets AND the older guys (like me) who's kids are out of the nest and have some disposable income to channel to our sport. Competitive guys - jocks, the drivers/riders at our local race tracks who may be looking for a less expensive motor sport to get the adenalin rush we all love so much [;)] We may need to stage demos at race tracks and football fields to further our cause.

One thing I have noticed, and this is not limited to our sport, is that the guy who goes whole hog goo-goo gonzo into the sport is the first to burn out and give it up. I encourage all of us to maintain some control and go for the long term duration....once again my selfish desires [:I]

r

r
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Post by Web-Pilot »

My apologies Randy for leaving you out. Since you are a Mile Hi Member, and are here all the time I forget that you drive 70+ miles each way to be here and fly with us.

Change Denver Metro Area to Front Range of Colorado and we will be more correct.

Randy came up with an idea that I would like to explore next year. We plan to go to clubs to see if they will hold a sanctioned event. We will provide the sanctioning, the CD, prizes and pilots. We would ask the club to provide a lunch, pay the expenses for the prizes and sanction fees, and keep whatever else they make from the event and supply judges. It might expose combat to other clubs, they get something out of it and we get to combat at different clubs in the area. To me it looks like a win win situation, but I might have the rose colored glasses on. What do you all think of the idea?

George
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Post by Lou Melancon »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by RH</i>
<br />One thing I have noticed, and this is not limited to our sport, is that the guy who goes whole hog goo-goo gonzo into the sport is the first to burn out and give it up. I encourage all of us to maintain some control and go for the long term duration....[:I]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I really think Randy hit the nail on the head. I am beginning to believe it is our enthusiasm that is killing combat.

In our excitement to fly and promote combat we have gone to 8 round contests. Why? So that folks would travel to get in enough rounds to climb in the points standings. Couple this with contest spacing of thirty days apart and you are taking on a constant build, re-build schedule with no "down time" to relax.

I often think that when folks leave combat, they don't come back because of the awesome workload they put on themselves when they were competing.

Maybe we ought to go back to 4 round contests, that last half a day. You would need less planes, the contest could be run at a slower more comfortable pace and you wouldn't take up the local clubs field for the entire day. If you did schedule a full day maybe you could add a second event like scale for four more rounds.

Chasing points is great but when it burns folks out and lessens the pilot pool it is bad.

I think a four round event may even attract some locals to give combat a try.
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lou Melancon</i>
Maybe we ought to go back to 4 round contests, that last half a day. You would need less planes, the contest could be run at a slower more comfortable pace and you wouldn't take up the local clubs field for the entire day. If you did schedule a full day maybe you could add a second event like scale for four more rounds.

I think a four round event may even attract some locals to give combat a try.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lou,

It takes time to get the new guys into contests. At our contest this month, we have 3 first-time-contest-fliers from our club signed up and two more that plan to attend. 4 of those 5 guys have been flying combat at the field for at least a year.


I personally wouldn't tavel 5-6 hours each way to fly 4 rounds (20 min.) of combat. I would stick with one event per day. The more classes held, the more building time involed.

At Combat Tuscaloosa, I flew all 8 rounds with one airplane. Both times I've been to Georgia I've only used 2.

Read this, starting next to the second picture down: http://www.treneffrc.com/featured%20pil ... 0davis.asp

The guys that are competitive and want the adrenaline rush will do combat, and those that don't, wont.

The problem with contests is not that there's to much going on, it's the travel time. Between work and college, I'll be lucky to attend any more out-of-state contests this year.
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Post by RH »

Alex, how far would you drive to fly 6 rounds? I drove 10 hours both ways to fly 6 and didn't feel shorted.

You've been lucky so far, Alex. The last meet I flew in, every plane I took was trashed - that would be 7.

Lou, this needs some more consideration and discussion, it may have merit.

r
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Post by Fred420 »

I live in Indiana, across from Louisville, and I drive a min of 3-4 hrs one way to fly combat. 5 to 8 rounds is good. That way my nerves and heart can take a brake, [xx(] LOL. This is only my second year, but I am going to try to do 4 events this year. I know that I am not going to score 3000 points like Brian or Mark,[:(] but that's OK. Yes I am competitive and like to win. But it's only a game. [:)] I umpire College and High School Baseball and do a fair amount of travel and am reminded by the action of the idiots that call themselves coaches that it is not a matter of life and death, it's a game. I am fortunate in that I am compensated for this "hobby" where as combat has costs to it. My wife and I camp and cook at the field to make it more affordable, which allows me more money for combat.

I am not in a points hunt ..... I do wish good luck to all those that are, but I am going to get your streamer. See ya at Jackson.


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Post by boiler »

Fred, our meet this Saterday is 2 hrs north of Cincinatti. Do you already have other plans?
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Post by Fred420 »

Yes Bob, I do have plans. I am officating a baseball tournament this weekend. I will see you at Jackson. Good luck and have fun at your event.

Dave
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Post by jj »

Agree we need balance. In Colorado we typically run our club contests (once a month) with 4 rounds. We then have our 4 sanctioned events per year (2 at Mile Hi, 2 at Airpark) where we run a couple of classes and generally 6 rounds.

If you expect folks from out of town and hold a sanctioned event I think you owe them 6 rounds so that one or two bad rounds don't put them completely out of the running.

The building aspect is also why I've been a big advocate of just one class per type of event (Open B for open, SSC for limited and 2548 for scale). Much as I'd prefer 2610, If we get too spread out we will divide and conquer ourselves.[B)]


Not to get picky here, but rather than going over participation strategy on this thread I was hoping to really more focus on trends in states and then try to figure out if we can do a root cause analysis for gains or losses in particular states. Then try to figure out strategies.

For example, the loss of participation in AZ. I don't know how many people were there but it sounds like we had quite a few and now they evaporated. Did that happen due to lack of critical mass, global warming, or diversion to pylon racing?

Just like to know any states that are particularly up or down... The Georgia data was great.

Then go off into analysis state by state.

Of course, it is a forum.....
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