2007 NATS

This is the big one ladies and gents, the AMA Nats

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boiler
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Post by boiler »

Good obvservations Rick.
Alex Treneff
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by montague</i>
<br />Rick,
And as far as what events on what days, I'd much rather see 3 days for SSC than having any event run 10 rounds in one day.

I could see something like this (using generic labels instead of specific classes)
day 1:
A 5 rounds
B 5 rounds
day2:
A 5
B 5
C 5
day 3
C 5
D 5
E 5
day 4
D 5
E 5

The downside to that approach is having two days with 2 class changes in them, but if it's kept short, and the classes picked so that the changes are less involved, I think it might work.

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Kirk,

What you are forgetting is that you are there all 4 days anyway, so SSC could be spread over 4 days and it wouldn't matter. I don't see any reason to spread the classes out. I will end up being 50 rounds in 4 days no matter how you slice it.

To all the pilots that come for 1 or 2 classes, spreading the class over extra days makes the trip that much harder and more expensive.

Keeping each class as short as possible is always best. To me, 10-14 rounds of SSC spread over 2 days would be ideal. Spread over 3 days, plus 2 travel days, many of us might not be able to get off work.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Vapor52</i>
<br />Someone will have to help me with this one---on the round matrix maker is there any way that the pilots that have back to back heats could be in color or underlined? That would give the CD a quick heads up on who might need the time----rick
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Chunky C wrote the software. You could email him via this forum to see if he can make the changes
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Post by montague »

Alex, I'm aware that since you only fly a couple of events, you're perfectly happy to screw people flying other events in favor of yours. But I don't think that makes a good approach for Nats. Trying to reduce the stress and chaos levels for most events makes the most sense to me, and 10 rounds in a class in a day is just the wrong idea for anyone.

Would you want SSC to be 10 rounds in a single day? That would really reduce your travel time.
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Post by Vapor52 »

Ed,what is Chunky's real name?---rick
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by montague</i>
<br />Alex, I'm aware that since you only fly a couple of events, you're perfectly happy to screw people flying other events in favor of yours. But I don't think that makes a good approach for Nats. Trying to reduce the stress and chaos levels for most events makes the most sense to me, and 10 rounds in a class in a day is just the wrong idea for anyone.

Would you want SSC to be 10 rounds in a single day? That would really reduce your travel time.
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Kirk,

Now matter how you divide the rounds up, it will be 50 in 4 days. Scale and Open B were the first two and SSC and Limited B were the second two. On the first two days, just divide the events up so that none of the 3 has 10 rounds in 1 day.

SSC all one day would work, although spreading all the classes over 2 days each is probably better. Just don't make any class 3 days.

Maybe the real solution is to only fly one scale class on the Opem B day next year. The class proliferation of the last couple of years is beginning to become a problem even at the NATs. There's no reason to reduce participation by spreading some classes over 3 days when we are currently flying duplicate classes.

In January announce which scale class will be flown at the NATs next year. I assume it would be 2548?
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Post by montague »

I think a lot of guys want to see just one scale class. But I suspect next year we will have both 2610 and 2548 again. The reason is the AMA rules cycle. I expect the classes to basically merge together in the next cycle, with us having one class that is a mixture of the two starting in 2009. That is, assuming everyone gets their proposals in, and the AMA combat contest board hasn't lost their minds. (I'm on the board, I can say that).

I don't have a problem with a class spanning 3 days, it's what was done years ago, but I also agree that 2 days is better. But I'm really opposed to a class being all one day, I'd rather do 3 classes in a day than 10 rounds of a single class in that day. Others may disagree, but that's what I'd prefer.
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Post by sgilkey »

That's a tough one.... 10 rounds of one class in one day is a pain. If you have a bad day, it's a bummer! I know I heard several people who ran out of planes (I even heard some who ran out in the 5 rounds per day classes and needed overnight repair time). On the other hand, the downtime to change classes slows things up, and we're already struggling to cram in all the rounds. Look how long it took this year and we had NO delays for weather or other reasons. I really would not want to add time. We were really tight in 2548- only had two planes and the first one's wing was destroyed in the first heat! Brian flew conservatively while we worked to stuff a backup wing between heats- it was done by about Round 5 or so. Having so few planes drives adjustments to flying style. It's a tough situation but on balance, I think adding downtime between classes is not a good move. If you want to fly all (or most) classes you have to come prepared to fly a lot of rounds in close succession, or take the hit of sitting some out. Not an easy decision but the alternative looks worse I think. Who'd have wanted to finish even LATER on Day 4??? And again, we had NO DELAYS!
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Post by montague »

Scott, I think the class change-overs could have been kept shorter than they were.

And I do mean short enough to allow us to change classes twice and still get in 5 per class. I think it would be worth trying, anyway.

It might help if the classes run that way weren't the most popular, which just happens to be the case. Of course "all up" and 2-heat contests tend to run slower than 3+ heats in terms of time between heats.
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Post by Captain America »

Scale was run with a change over last year were they not?
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Post by boiler »

Day one was run with five heats of 2610 with 5 heats of open B. Same for the 2nd day if I recall. 2548, ssc, and limited b the third day, an 2548 and ssc the last day with only 5 rounds of limited b being flown. I'm old and could be mistaken, but that's what I think was done. We finished pretty early the first two days and rather late the second two days. If someone can suggest a way to finish fairly early and still get in all events, make the suggestions now. The planning meeting is only about 2 months away.
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Post by cshepherd »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by montague</i>
<br />I think a lot of guys want to see just one scale class. But I suspect next year we will have both 2610 and 2548 again. The reason is the AMA rules cycle. I expect the classes to basically merge together in the next cycle, with us having one class that is a mixture of the two starting in 2009. That is, assuming everyone gets their proposals in, and the AMA combat contest board hasn't lost their minds. (I'm on the board, I can say that).

I don't have a problem with a class spanning 3 days, it's what was done years ago, but I also agree that 2 days is better. But I'm really opposed to a class being all one day, I'd rather do 3 classes in a day than 10 rounds of a single class in that day. Others may disagree, but that's what I'd prefer.

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Couldn't someone submit an <b>URGENT</b> proposal to "merge" the classes? An Urgent proposal if passed would go into effect January 1st of the year following their original issue.

This could be sold as Urgent due to the decline in participation and uncertainty of competitors as to what class to build planes for. Just a thought.
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by cshepherd</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by montague</i>
<br />I think a lot of guys want to see just one scale class. But I suspect next year we will have both 2610 and 2548 again. The reason is the AMA rules cycle. I expect the classes to basically merge together in the next cycle, with us having one class that is a mixture of the two starting in 2009. That is, assuming everyone gets their proposals in, and the AMA combat contest board hasn't lost their minds. (I'm on the board, I can say that).

I don't have a problem with a class spanning 3 days, it's what was done years ago, but I also agree that 2 days is better. But I'm really opposed to a class being all one day, I'd rather do 3 classes in a day than 10 rounds of a single class in that day. Others may disagree, but that's what I'd prefer.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Couldn't someone submit an <b>URGENT</b> proposal to "merge" the classes? An Urgent proposal if passed would go into effect January 1st of the year following their original issue.

This could be sold as Urgent due to the decline in participation and uncertainty of competitors as to what class to build planes for. Just a thought.
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Kirk, Chris,

Why do the classes have to be merged to just fly one class. Rick is the CD, so why can't he say "Based on expected participation, we are going to pick scale class xxxx out of the two choices this year." [?]
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Post by cshepherd »

Since 2610(Event 750) is Official in the rulebook, AMA would expect us to fly it. They would probably frown on us not flying a rulebook event and replacing it with a provisional event in its place. However, if an Urgent proposal were passed, we could update the rules for Event 750 with the 2548 verbiage.

Just a thought as I don't even know if this is possible.
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Post by Vapor52 »

We can drop 2610 and fly 2548, just need to know if this is what the majority is thinking----------rick
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