Question for all pilots...

If it flew combat between 1935 and 1955, here's the place to talk about it!
Also a great place to talk about Competition!

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jj
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Post by jj »

No, a bit too far to drive

If I would it would be 2610 or e3696

well why not, but not required.
rdc767
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Post by rdc767 »

All
I'm going to try to make Lou's Dixie Nats. Scale and SSC. I have 2 zero 2548's. Whats the prop for 2548 and rpms?
Ron Caravona
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Dear Ron,
The powers that be in RCCA have skillfully hidden all the information about props and rpms in the rules section of the "Start Combat" tab on the home page. I can't believe they stuck it in such a sneaky place but you can find it there.

For Dixie I am planning to combine elements of 2610 & 2548 into a non-NPS event we will simply call "Scale RC Combat". Here is a summary of how it will work:

<ul><li><b>Allowable Planes</b>- any airplane listed in "All the Worlds Fighter Aircraft" by Gordon and Swanborough is allowed. You can fly a bipe, a tripe, a twin, or a triple, a prop or jet if you so desire. The only limit on the airplanes are that they must have a maximum span not greater than 48" for singles and 60" for twins; but can be any span less than that if desired. </li>
<li><b>Engine-Powerplant Rules:</b> - will be exactly as published in the 2548 rules e.g. .25 max for singles, .30 combined displacement for multi-engine, and electric is allowed. Must use the spec props and meet the spec rpm limits</li>
<li><b>Weight</b>- there are no maximum or minimum weights. If you want to build a two pound plane go for it; if on the other hand you want to armor up to four pounds you can do that too. No limits. </li>
</ul>
The idea of these rules is to allow as many folks to compete as possible. The airplanes can be built to either 2610 or 2548 rules or purpose built for this contest. The planes you use at this contest should work at any other contest. So, if you are planning to fly any scale combat in 2007 whatever you are planning to build will work at Dixie.
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Post by cshepherd »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">powers that be in RCCA have skillfully hidden all the information about props and rpms in the rules section of the "Start Combat" tab on the home page.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

<p>LOL Lou! That would be the former powers that be! [:D]
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

Great to hear from you Ron. I thought you might have been refused landing so you were flying around all the time.[:D]
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Post by drewjet »

Lou, I think it is great that you are trying to nurture scale combat back to life. I will fly whatever ends up happening. However, It seems to me that you are flying 2548 with 2 exceptions, no minimum weight and a broader range of planes. I think under your proposed idea some inventive person could come up with a very light low wingloading plane that would dominate the other planes that would show up (this assumes that most people would bring their standard 2548 planes). i don't think that would be a good thing. The other exemption, open up the allowable planes, doesn't seem to me to be any great improvement on 2548 as most planes I can think of are already there. Bipe tripes and jets I doubt would do very well. So to me it just seems as though you would be cutting out NPS, which to me doesn't really matter, but may to some and end up keeping them away.

It seems to me that most everyone responding would like to fly 2548. But in the end it is your contest and you get to make the final decision.
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Post by THend »

Lou, everyone...

Have a nice day!

You guys will work it out I am sure.
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Looks like even your slope scale boys require some documentation, huh Terry?
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Post by sgilkey »

Hi Lou, it's great that you're putting on this contest and i hope you get good attendance! As mentioned previously, not sure we can make this due to timing with end of Brian's senior year, but if we can, we would just fly our standard 2548 planes. Our 2610 wings are too long. our 2548s are over the min weight so no way to jettison ballast!?! (don't know how that happened, kept weighing stuff during build, looked like we were gonna come out light, threw in all full-size servos including two on ail, button it all up, DANG IT 2 oz over min!!) oh well, they fly nice and it will still be great, if we can make it. we only have two, probably better build one more over the winter, just to be sure!
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Post by sgilkey »

p.s. Terry, that Manta sloper looks pretty sweet!
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Lou, I would prefer to fly an NPS class. It looks to me like you are flying very close to 2548. Your rules would allow almost any plane and have no weight limits, other than that it`s 2548.

Weight can be added to any plane and is a key factor of performance. I`d prefer to see the 3.25lb min weight of 2548.

The list of planes for 2548 is pretty long. Are there any planes, besides Kirk`s Firebrands, that don`t qualify for 2548 and are likly to show up at the contest? I can`t think of any planes or pilots.

Let`s fly 2548.
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Hi Lee,
What I am trying to do is increase scale participation at this contest. I don't want the discussion leading up to it to be about rules that some like and other's don't so instead of calling it 2548 or 2610, its just called Scale Combat, and planes from either discipline can participate.

I don't think there is a need for an approved list. Some folks build unusual planes cause they like them, others build unusual planes to gain an advantage. With a 48" span limit, I doubt there will be an advantage of one plane over another so why not let folks build what they like.

If you are going to build to 48" span to have the greatest streamer cutting swath you can it is likely that you will be more than 3 lbs. In the days where the upper limit of 2610 was 3 lbs many pilots had trouble building big planes that could fit within the limit. If a pilot wants to build a 32" span ME-109, at 2 lbs 2 ounces and be very very fast for Dixie he can do it. The person who wants to build a 48" span plane will have to build very light with limited armor to get under 3 lbs. The truth is that the pilot and not the plane makes the difference in who wins. I could give you my plane and take yours and you would still beat me.

Maybe between you, Kirk, Mike Fredricks, and Brian Gilkey one of you could design a plane that had an advantage over the others, but you would be designing a plane for only one contest. I think most folks who attend Dixie will try to use the plane they have flown at LSN or the one they will fly at the AMA Nats to enter the Dixie contest, so I made it easy for all to use their existing planes.

I think there will be so few NPS contests for Scale this year that it matters more if you win a contest than if you win NPS. Besides LSN, Dixie, and the AMA Nats there will probably be a scale contest in South Florida which is a real haul for anyone other than a Floridian to attend. I am guessing that Randy Shiosaki will hold one in Idaho, but as far as I know right now that is about it. NPS is really not the driving factor anymore in determining who will or will not attend a scale contest. I think folks will make the decision based on how many others are going to fly. That is why I am committed to promoting the Dixie event with wider and less restrictive rules regarding airplane selection and weight.

Of the palnes I have looked at building to date - the Hawker Tempest Mks I&IV, the Boeing XF8B, Miles M20 and a few others - are not on the 2548 list. If I've got to go to the trouble of building a scale fleet I want it to be very distinguishable from what others are flying.
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Post by slam »

i am not in scale for the nps. i do, however, like the 2548 platform. i didn't like a couple of aspects, but most have been addressed.

i like the motor restrictions, i like the max wingspan and minimum weight. with these and the approved planes list, the planes are similar in performance and it becomes a pilots class.

i prefer a pilots class over a builders class, or a $$$$ class.

with this much time before the event, i should be able to build for this event. if grasshopper does a scale event and it is 2610, then i will probably be building specifically for this event (i will not be attending any of the other events that have scale), if i am building for this evetnt than i will probably show up with something unusual, or light, or both.

i won't fly any more 2610 (disclaimer.......never say never)

whatever you decide lou, i will be there with bells on my toes. i understand the direction you are going, but i don't think much is wrong with 2548.

just my .02......it probably wasn't worth that!

slam
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Post by Hat Trick »

I also would like to see one scale class. It looks to me like 2548 is the one that has a chance to last.
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Post by Lou Melancon »

No scale class is thriving unless you consider 15 people participating in all Scale NPS last year real popularity.

It is my belief that we need promotion to generate participation, not rules or classes. My hope is that at Dixie '07 we have enough entrants in scale to equal the entire US Population participation in 2006, e.g. 15 pilots.

Does it really matter that there are less restrictions on choice of planes? Will that get us more or less pilots, ditto the weight issue?

Its not about the rules, they are put in place so that everyone at the contest is flying by the same requirements, but rules and classes do not cause participation.

I am hoping that instead of constantly bickering and splitting hairs we can move on to sharing what we plan to build, how we plan to do it, take some pictures and start showing others what you are doing. That's what gets me fired up, not arguing about the perfect set of rules for an event that very few are participating in now.
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