Question for all pilots...

If it flew combat between 1935 and 1955, here's the place to talk about it!
Also a great place to talk about Competition!

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Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Lou, I`m very glad that you will host the DN again in 2007. I`ve enjoyed all three of the past events that I`ve flown in. I`ve got DN 2007 on my list of "must attend contests"
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lightning
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Post by lightning »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Lee Liddle</i>
<br />snip...The list of planes for 2548 is pretty long. Are there any planes, besides Kirk`s Firebrands, that don`t qualify for 2548 and are likly to show up at the contest? I can`t think of any planes or pilots.

Let`s fly 2548.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Lee, the Northrop A17a is not approved for 2548, even though there is documentation to support its airborne combat role. Pity, as the ones I flew in 2610 at the Nats have a 47 1/2" wingspan so with a spec prop and stock muffler they would make a great 2610/2548 crossover bird.
BTW, mine weighed in at 3# even, so need 4oz of ballast for 2548 but that's not a big deal!! I did that in 2005 when the 2610 planes were allowed to fly 2548.
I have three more half built but with 2610 contests other than the NATS looking dubious next year I'm not sure I'm going to finish them.
I'm not the only one with them either - Don (Hollywood) Veres has a few and I think Jay Lawless (who designed the model) may have a couple still kicking around.
For the record I would be a supporter of a blended 2610/2548 class. Build everything to 48" max, with all other dimensions in proportion, minimum 3 1/4# but eliminate the prop/muffler/rpm restrictions. Oh, and retire the scale fidelity judging routine too! Lets just fly combat!
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Lee, the Northrop A17a is not approved for 2548, even though there is documentation to support its airborne combat role. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If there is documentation, why not submit it to be added to the list? Maybe the list`s days are numbered, but it wouldnt hurt to have it on the list.


BTW I was aware of the A17`s out there, but you forgot part of my statement
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">and are likly to show up at the contest? <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
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lightning
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Post by lightning »

Didn't forget it Lee! There's four of us Michigan guys kicking it around right now. Certainly further than we usually travel but we may need a fix by Spring, so who knows!!
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Man, that`d be great if a group of you guys came down to the DN. Bring those A-17`s and let`s have some fun!!

Either that or you could get a Winter Fix by coming to the LSN in Ft Worth, middle of March.
Cajun
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Post by Cajun »

You guys are getting popular.

Not remembering what a A-17 looked like, I put in a Google search for Northrop A17, and LOOK what comes up. The fifth hit was entitled "LEE LIDDLE", and the next one was "SSC DESIGNS".

The first was a link to RCCA forums and the next was a link to Georgia Combat site. And Don Veres A-17 was featured in both hits.

Aint the internet wonderful.[^]
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

Lou, if you use your rule are twins to 60" allowed?
slam
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Post by slam »

lou,

looked through my fairly expansive fighter aircraft library and don't have the book you refer to. in fact, i did a search on amazon and couldn't find it.

i found this
The Complete Book of Fighters: An Illustrated Encyclopedia of Every Fighter Aircraft Built and Flown (Hardcover)
by William Green, Gordon Swanborough

this might be alittle all inclusive for the type of aircraft we are trying to promote, but would be interesting for unusual examples of fighters.

let me know where to find a listing of this book, i always like to increase my military library.

slam
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Drew,
Yes 60" span for twins. Do I feel a Grumman F7F Tigercat with electron power coming out of Florida?

Slam,
You found the right book and there are a lot of planes in it. I think most folks will balance the effort to design, build, de-bug, against expected peformance and select stuff that is pretty standard. There is just so far you can go with weird and unusual before you get declining returns.

I think most folks will build from the Approved list in 2548, but for those who enjoy the research/design/build/de-bug and cuss part of the hobby then they have a wide range to choose from.

This is the one I am leaning towards right now:

<center>Image</center>
It is a Hawker Tempest MKII. I hope the cowl will match up to an existing pop bottle so I don't have to mold them from fiberglass.

I called up Jim Bodnar's website for his article on making scale planes from foam re-inforced with kevlar and found sources of light kevlar. Ron Caravona is considering vacuum bagging but I am looking for easier ways to do it.

By the way I am taking Chris Handegard's advice for reducing carnage. In the words of Grasshopper <i>" ... you can reduce carnage by changing the way you fly...."</i>. So my planes will not have that much armor.

If you need to read Jim Bodnar's articles on constructing scale planes, using kevlar and carbon fiber and vacuum bagging click on this link:

http://eriecoast.com/~star33/fuselage.html for fuselages

http://eriecoast.com/~star33/wing.html for wings

http://eriecoast.com/~star33/pump.html making your own vacuum pump

Here is Jim holding a Tempest II for 2610 at the PacNats around 2000:

<center>Image
</center>

The man was really impressive. He even figured out how to attach a parachute to a combat plane so if it were hit it would come down slowly. He and Karen were last seen around the USAF base in Minot, SD. Jimmy, come back, we miss you.
S3HD
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Post by S3HD »

Instead of using Amazon, I recommend abebooks.com for finding rare and out of print books.
Try this:
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchR ... 0&sortby=2
Yankee Samurai
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Post by Yankee Samurai »

Hi Lou,
Wish I could come. Scale is my love. We actually hold four 2610 contests in the NorthWest, two by Chet Carpenter and two by me. When time and money will allow we'll bring a truck full of Scale pilots down.
Mike Gullikson
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Post by Mike Gullikson »

Hello Randy, where in the NW do you hold you combat meets. I would be interested in attending if I can get the time off work. I'm up in the Seattle area and have a couple of other pilots that might like to take a road trip with me. we fly 2610 with mostly mustangs and my twin mustangs.
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Mike,

do you know Chris Strasbourg in Bothell? I met up with him and his buddies for some e-combat about 18 months ago when I was up at Microsoft.
Yankee Samurai
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Post by Yankee Samurai »

Hi Mike,
In May Chet holds the first of four contest in Ontario Oregon. Then I host the next one in June usually the first Sa* * * *ay in June after memorial day at Shelley Idaho it's between Idaho Falls and Blackfoot where I live. Then we alternate back and forth. Your reputation precedes you I've heard of your twin Mustangs from Wynn Hone and Bret Anderson when you used to bring a dozen of them to Billings. Welcome back. If you decide to come to a contest you are most welcome to stay at my place. I have a lot of space for company. Regards
[8D]
grasshpr
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Post by grasshpr »

Hey Lou,

I meant to comment sooner, but it looks like you haven't been lacking for feedback. This is a tough nut to crack. If I'm reading the 2007 calendar right Memorial day falls on May 28 so I'll be able to attend. I plan to be at the Joe Nall fly in the week prior.

I have tried to remain open minded about all things scale, so if you want to try a new approach that offers a middle ground I'll be there to participate. I don't mind flying a scale contest that doesn't go for NPS just for the fun of it.

If I had to choose a preference it would be 2610, I love the sound of a 9-4 on a mousse can! I'm still stuck with 48" wingspan airplanes (Ki-64) that I can't use anywhere else - ala the LIST.

If you asked me to fly 2548 because it was the popular choice, I would say yes to support the group.

All of my 2548 and 2610 planes fit your guidelines when equiped with the spec muffler and prop. Actually , I better look in the fighter book you are using to determine elegibility for a Ki-64 before I say that.
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