What to fly in 07. Member Poll


Moderator: hbartel

jj
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:45 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

What to fly in 07. Member Poll

Post by jj »

It makes great business sense to ask the customer what they want. As a SIG, we are our own customers. We join and participate in RCCA to promote our interests both amongst ourselves as well as within the AMA and R/C community.

I suggest we do something radical and poll our membership on their interest levels. I've held focus groups world-wide and getting customers to put their preferences on paper often yields amazing information. On a web site you typically get a few people promoting their ideas, but you rarely get a sense of real interest levels across the whole community. Also, in a conversation you may think someone is 100% behind one effort and find out they really meant "maybe". Polls are not completely accurate, but they are very helpful. Part of what makes me think RCCA needs this is the low numbers of participants in 2610 (15) and 2548 (14).

To that end I just did a poll of the Colorado Combat Association pilots (COCOA). I sent the polll out to Coloradans that participated in one or more events last year. I probably should have sent it out to Scott and Vic as well and I missed a few people who are not part of the regular participants (I didn't have their email addresss).

I got responses back from everyone within 3 days. Amazing.

The votes have been tallied for CO, and even though I'm originally from Chicago I only allowed one vote per person.

I asked what classes people planned to fly in 2007, rating their interest on a scale of 1-5 with 5=positively, 3=maybe, 1=no.

Here are the COCOA results:
A 5 rating means a positive participant.
A 3,4, or 5 means a likely participant.

Class Positive Likely
Open B - 10 P - 12 L
SSC ---- 4 P - 8 L
e3696 -- 5 P - 9 L
2548 --- 3 P - 5 L
2610 --- 1 P - 4 L
Lim B -- 1 P - 1 L

the margin for error is low given the high participation.

Open B is strong as always in CO
SSC is doing OK, just ok
3696 picked up interest Very fast, but we'll have to watch it
2548 Marginal at best. may not have enough to hold an event
2610 Marginal and unlikely
Lim B Dead as a doornail in Colorado

The RCCA is suffering from class proliferation.
Open B and SSC are strong in general.
While Lim B is dead in CO it seems to have a bit of a following on a National level, but not much given the number of participants. Perhaps this should be a Club Combat Spec rather than an NPS class.
2548 seems to have almost killed off 2610 and taken itself out in the process. At least in CO, if we can't combine the classes somehow, niether will survive.
The enthusiasm for 3696 really suprised me. I expected a lot of 3s and 4s but I got back strong interest. We've been trying to get an electric class going and many people are enthused that a spec may finally be working. Remember whereas IC engines lose 10-15% power up at our altitude, an electric motor runs at full power while there is less wind resistance for the airframe. If all the likely 3696 pilots from Colorado actually build and fly in a contest this year that will equal one half of all the RCCA pilots that flew 2548 in a sanctioned event last year across the whole country!

Rather than asking our forum participants for what they want to fly for the year Isuggest the RCCA consider sending a poll to the membership and find out the interest level across the membership. That might even be a good indication for moving things from Provisional to a rulebook class, or dropping a provisional class.
User avatar
Ed Kettler
Posts: 3437
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2001 6:05 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Ed Kettler »

Good idea, JJ. Maybe our new webmaster can whip up something that interfaces Survey Monkey (or something similar) with the membership system.

I think we will see popularity vary by location, where there are 'pockets of interest'. 2548 is doing OK here in TX, where the air is thick and we have a core group to get at least 4 guys to fly the event, but nobody seemed interested in flying Limited B. 3696 is taking off[:D] here with a lot of experimentation. Open B has about died out when SSC became the dominant contest.

What it takes to run a contest are a CD and a bunch of folks who decide what they want to fly. What I think we need to do is figure out some way to reach out to the club combat folks. What are tehy flying and why? What could attract them to RCCA? What drives them away or prevents them from joining?
RH
Posts: 970
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:30 pm
Location: USA

Post by RH »

Total Events in System: 59
Total RCCA Pilots: 113
Total Non-RCCA Pilots 112
2610 Pilots: 16
2105 Pilots: 0
2548 Pilots 15
Open 1/2 A Pilots: 0
Open A Pilots: 0
Open B Pilots: 64
Open C Pilots: 11
SSC Pilots: 89
Limited B Pilots 32
Pilots flying Scale: 27 %
Pilots flying Open: 66 %
Pilots flying SSC: 79 %
Pilots flying Limited B 28 %
Rounds Flown (all pilots): 5876
Avg Score per Round: 183
Best Score in a Round: 940
Worst Score in a Round: -400

Copied and pasted from NPS analysis.

SSC is by far the most popular for 2006 Open next.
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

It's certainly regional. Most events in the midwest are Limited B and SSC. I have to travel a long ways to get to a Open B meet.
jj
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:45 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by jj »

I guess if we were to do an RCCA poll we should require region and state information.

RH, thanks for the analysis.

The advantage of a poll versus analysis of 06 events, is that a poll is a leading indicator, whereas analysis is a lagging indicator and does not take into account the desire to fly in a class where none is offered. While I don't care for Lim B, even if I wanted to fly it, there are no events within 500 miles so that interest would never show up in posted results.

SSC and Open B have solid followings. No reason to tweak or adjust them execept to ensure SSC moves to rule book rather than provisional status.

But a poll might help sort out the other classes.

It would be nice to know, prior to an event, how much interest there is in the various classes. We have that at a micro level by looking at the registrations on line, but it would be good to have the overall picture as well.
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

We've had this debate a bunch of times but here's my plug for limited B. I think a lot of areas have not yet seen the top of the pile in open B. When your up against a 2.5 pound plane with a Fora .29 doing 21,000 or so and your Hot open B ship that you thought was a Ferari now looks like a Vega you usually soon change your mind about Limited B! Or maybe you pony up the 250$ a copy for engines and however much for new planes and feel the need for speed!
jj
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:45 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by jj »

Mike,

There are a decent number of people who fly Lim B.

The point of a poll is to avoid debate about a class. Instead of a few people debating why one class is better than the other it is far more productive to ask the membership what they want to fly.

From last years results it is clear that SSC and Open B have solid participation. Lim B has about half the participants as Open B, but it still has a significnt base with 32 RCCA members. The classes I'm most concerned with are 2548 and 2610 where each had less that 15 RCCA pilots flying last year.

Local clubs can and should fly whatever they want to. At one point I thought one region had a lot of Gremlin only flying. That's great.
Lim B does well in some regions. But it would be good for someone to know what others are interested in flying for their state or region.

If I moved back to the midwest I might want to fly Open B, but others might not, so I'd need to adjust to the local preference. Likewise, if someone either moves or starts flying combat in CO, they will not find any Lim B. Here in CO, a few of us would love to fly 2610. We could argue all day about why 2610 is great, but if only 3 or 4 pilots in the region want to fly that class it makes no sense to add it to a contest.

Again, I'm suggesting a poll to avoid on-line debates between a few members and instead simply find out what the overall membership, nationally, regionally and at the state level want to fly.
Hat Trick
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 6:58 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by Hat Trick »

The problem is pilots don't always know what they want to fly and often are happy with what they are flying now. The problem with all the open classes is that pilots are happy with what they have now until some hotshot brings on the next generation of improvements and kills everyone and then it is ante up or get out time. My experience is that way to many get out and combat is dead in that area again. This argument always seems to fall on deaf ears but my feeling is that to sustain combat in an area you need to start with something that won't evolve to quickly and burn pilots out. If you start limited there is an opportunity for the ones who want to move up to higher performance to do so. Hopefully you can keep your base of pilots who don't want to.
The problem with a poll is that it shows what people are doing right now and may or may not be an indicator of what will happen in the future. If you took a poll early in the course of SSC it would have been clear that a majority of pilots where flying Open B (there was no limited B then). Fast forward a bit into the future and that changed.
User avatar
boiler
Posts: 3336
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 8:16 pm
Location: Ohio
Contact:

Post by boiler »

Good idea.[:)] I fly whatever is being held. My preference is to fly what I can with another pilot rather than sitting around complaining that no one is flying my favorite. My hanger contains a little bit of everything as a result.

Just got a dupron foamie elevon plane at a swap meet this morning that Mike Fuller said would be a great electric class open design. He has turned to the dark side like some others and will now only fly electrics. The ready to fly plane was $80. Just add receiver and a $35 battery (3s 1300mah 30c)to fly in 20++ mph winds.

What would I like to fly as a preference might be scale but I might not have anyone to fly with without driving 20 hours to get there.[:(] I have several 1/2A open and scale planes, a Gnat, and a 3696 so I will fly it if I can get to it. I would CD any event if I could get pilots to come and play at our field.

The destruction and build time go down as does the power and speed of the plane. They still have a high fun factor. The wide open speed demons get the heart pumping harder without a doubt. Since bigger faster planes require larger fields that are getting harder to find, the future may be in smaller slower planes. Not park flyers please, but something that will perform on merits of fun, neatness or coolness, economics, and safety.

Do you want to build a rank into your poll? 1st, 2nd, 3rd preference? I'm glad some one is willing to take this on. I'm busy building for 2007.
jj
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:45 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by jj »

I think rank would be too much and misleading. I've done many polls and focus groups and the 1-5 scale works well. Again, a 5 means your positively going to fly it this year, 3 is a maybe and a 1 is no interest at all. The problem with ranking is that I got one response with a 5, a 3, and four 1s. A rank system would make the 3 look better than a maybe and would make some of the "no's" look like a maybe.

I think we could use the RCCA online voting system to implement this in an automated manner. that would be best. If we can't make that happen I'll be willing to help with making this happen. We already have results from Colorado.

Mike,
Not sure why you want to bash Open B. It is still very popular and despite your fears, the people at the top aren't buying $250 engines and getting in equipment wars. The Colorado numbers of Open B pilots and participation have been steady, strong and we aren't having the problems you seem worried about.

Regardless, I've posted this to help stop bashing or campainging and instead just ask the membership what they want to fly.

What is wrong with that? Please calm down!
Mike Gullikson
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:10 pm
Location: USA

Post by Mike Gullikson »

Well I'll add our clubs interests to this little tally, we fly 2610 scale with an average of 4 pilots once a month from April to October, and also open B. basically our open is any thing under 3.5 lbs and less than 30 size engine, we have about 5 regulars at this and one of them flys an electric pusher plane with us, we don't count national points but do have a lot of fun. its also seens that the slower planes in our combats get just as many cuts as the fast ones.

just my little info, thanks from
The SRAC Air Combat Comand
Snohomish Washington where our fields are flooded now
AIM
Posts: 801
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:22 am
Location: Montpelier, Ohio

Post by AIM »

My opinion doesn't mean much but I like LimB...
jj
Posts: 729
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2002 11:45 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Post by jj »

All RCCA member opinions count!
On person, one vote. Glad to have feedback.

I want to get this automated but until then if people do want to provide input I'd prefer that you do so by putting in the information for all listed classes and your preference on a 1-5 scale with 5 = positively plan to fly in 2007, and 1 = no interest.

SSC
OpenB
2610
2548
LimB
e3696

Thanks

jj
User avatar
Which_way_is_up
Posts: 1637
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2002 8:54 am
Location: Dallas, Texas

Post by Which_way_is_up »

SSC - 4
OpenB - 1
2610 - 1
2548 - 1
LimB - 1
e3696 - 5
Rabbit Leader
Posts: 1150
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 11:37 pm

Post by Rabbit Leader »

SSC-4
OpenB-1
2610-1
2548-5
Limb-1
3696-5

There's my tally, JJ..thanks for doing this!!

Cash
Post Reply

Return to “Trends in Participation”