Glimpse of AMA`s Rules Board`s Smoke Filled Room


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montague
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Post by montague »

Just personal opionion here...

SSC could go straight to full AMA event, it's been more than tested. It just needs to be clearly presented and enough lobbying. I'm really curious why anyone voted "N" on it.

I've been hearing a lot of random bits about scale combat. I expect there will be a number of various proposals if even half the people talking about it actually submit. So, I strongly urge what Lee suggested, do it as small parts. Then all the proposals can be sorted through, voted, and then cross-proposed to make tweaks.

<rant> Also, remind your contest board members about cross proposals. It's usually better to vote Y on the first round even if you aren't hot on the change just to allow discussion, since there is a cross-proposal round to tweak, and a final vote before it gets in the book anyway. That, more than anything, is what TO'd me about the SSC vote last time, it never got past the first vote, and it certianly deserved more than that. </rant>
montague
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Post by montague »

Direct link to the AMA list of proposals for 2009 (the current cycle)

http://www.modelaircraft.org/Comp/proposals.htm
Vapor52
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Post by Vapor52 »

What is the big advantage of SSC being a rule book event, other than having priority on scheduling? I've never heard of anyone having a scheduling problem, has anyone? It doesn't make any difference to the AMA whether it is rule book or not.-------rick
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Rick,

Every year here in North TX I have to work around the big bird, fun flies, float flies, scale meets, sometimes having to have the District event coordinator calling the otehr CD to get permission. This year I got all of the dates early from my two clubs, so I wrote a $100 check to AMA to lock down the dates.

That said, having SSC a rule book event will make it an AMA event at the NATS, raising its stature a bit, as the most popular event should have. Also, they get to buy the plaques at the NATS instead of us [:D]SSC has stood the test of time, it has not changed substantially in quite a while, so what benefit is derived by keeping it RCCA provisional, Rick?
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

I appreciate the guidance from both Kirk and Lee; however, I feel that you have to be able to show the "big picture" so they can see how they all fit together, otherwise they will not understand how all the puzzle parts fit together unless they have been exposed to the event.

I agree with proper marketing of the changes, especially to the non-RCCA contest board members. With SSC, we should be able to pull all of the NPS stats to show the popularity, combine that with a letter of recommendation from the RCCA Board, full rules in addition to the line item changes, phone calls and emails to educate and answer questions, and you should have a pretty good chance at getting SSC passed. Lou, did you get feedback from the "no" voters as to why they didn't approve SSC?
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Post by sgilkey »

The current status of 2610 as a rule book event that is ossified but can't be changed due to the long AMA rules change cycle is to me an example of why we DON'T want evolving events stuck in the AMA rules cycle. Electrics in SSC, for example, do we really know the way E is written into the rules works in competition? What if we need to make a tweak? Just an example. FOlks say SSC hasn't changed but it could be up for a real big change, the way E has evolved. I don't know one way or the other. Wouldn't want to bind it in a long rules change cycle. On the flip side, I don't see the huge advantage to making it a rule book event. there's lots of little u/c, FF, etc classes on the books that practically nobody flies, being a rule book event does not create participation. Having AMA pony up for a few bucks worth of NATS trophies does not seem like a good tradeoff for getting locked in a long rules change cycle. I've heard AMA has said that RCCA should not be in the rules making business but if not us, who WILL do it? Who at AMA will serve the function RCCA has for developing class rules? I do see some advantages for being a rule-book event (mostly "cred" but what does that REALLY buy us?) but I don't think they offset the rules change cycle anchor.
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Which_way_is_up
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Post by Which_way_is_up »

Scott, I've got to agree 100% with what you've said.
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Scott,
Like Roy I have to agree 100% with what you said. The two reasons that SSC did not pass into a rule book event, as Ed asked, were the two reasons you give:
<ul><li>You lose the ability to adjust or change an event easily once it goes into the rule book </li><li>The proposals as offered did not address the issue of electrics to the extent required. </li></ul>

One way to circumvent being locked into difficult to change rules is to petition the AMA RC Combat Contest Committee to make the event AMA "Provisional". That would legitimize it, gets it into the rule book, but provides for adjustments and changes.
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Post by Vapor52 »

Lee, you have NEVER seen me say that the AMA doesn't want the RCCA in the rule making business, I simply have never said that. All I have ever said is that the AMA does not care whether or not classes are rule book or not. I've seen this discussion 4 years in a row at the Nats planning meeting among all the groups, some of which fly mostly non-rule book events. I am not advocating one way or the other and it doesn't matter to me, just asking what the big advantage would be? So far it is that the AMA will furnish us plaques at the Nats, but 1st all have to pay a higher entry fee for that. Scott & Lou bring up good points. When I voted No the last time it was after talking to combat pilots in my area and out of 7---4 wanted it to stay provisional and I didn't even consider my own view at all----------rick
Vapor52
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Post by Vapor52 »

Lee, personally I don't even think that way, who else to make rules for combat but Us the RCCA? Who else but a scattered few would even know anything about combat? My district where I live in Ohio is different than where I fly in Indiana---makes for an interesting situation! Ky is in my district so I polled Ron Caravona, I got opinions from any & all I could call, write or get by Email, and this amounted to very few total! If it comes up I will do something similar and the wishes of pilots in my area who fly combat will be what I vote, like I stated every time asked---I do have an opinion, but in the end it makes no difference to me whether SSC is rule book or not. If I ask Sean Rupp Y or N and he says Y then that is the vote, it is his business why, it is my business to ask him which way he wants me to vote--------rick
Vapor52
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Post by Vapor52 »

PS---I only asked why it is wanted as rule book out of curiosity and so far Scott & Lou's answers make the most sense to me and most reflect the way I feel----rgf
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cshepherd
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Post by cshepherd »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

3.2. All contest Board members <font size="4"><font color="red">MUST</font id="red"></font id="size4">be active in the area of interest represented by their board.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

area of interest could be interpreted widely, does it mean flying in events, building airplanes, attending events or reading the forums?

It does not say anything about flying in the event represented by their board.

Just because someone does not currently fly, it should not curtail them from representing the organization that they are a member of.
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by cshepherd</i>
<br /><blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

3.2. All contest Board members <font size="4"><font color="red">MUST</font id="red"></font id="size4">be active in the area of interest represented by their board.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

area of interest could be interpreted widely, does it mean flying in events, building airplanes, attending events or reading the forums?

It does not say anything about flying in the event represented by their board.

Just because someone does not currently fly, it should not curtail them from representing the organization that they are a member of.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I agree completely with Chris.

Also unless there is someone who would do a better job than the Board Member currently serving, there is no reason to kick the current Board Member out.

It makes sense to have the most-qualified person serving on the board, whether or not they are as active as others.

And it is up to the members in each District Representative's district to worry about that Representative. Maybe they want their current Representative to stay in place. If not, they can take care of it, since it is <i>their</i> district, after all.
Lou Melancon
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Post by Lou Melancon »

Lee,
No the Dixie Nats are over.

Alex,
I am your representative for AMA District V to the RC Combat Contest Committee.

The members of the Academy of Model Aeronautics RC Combat Contest Committee are appointed by the AMA District Vice President.

Contrary to what has been indicated in the last few posts the RC Combat Contest Comittee members are not obliged to vote the will of their constituency. They are charged with evaluating each proposal on its own merits, by the standards and guidelines provided to them by AMA and then vote on the proposals based on its merits or lack thereof.

For those members not happy with the AMA Combat Contest Committee Member from their AMA district for whatever reason, please let your AMA district Vice President know, and tell him specifically why.

Also it would be wise to have an alternate candidate in mind to suggest to your AMA District Vice President, with reasons for why that person is better than the one they have already appointed.

If you are unhappy with your AMA RC Combat Contest Committee member because the vote did not go your way, too bad because that is not a reason to remove a member. If they failed to follow the process that would be grounds for removal.
Vapor52
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Post by Vapor52 »

Lou, while you are correct on procedure I was drilled pretty hard (I think ) on why I voted no. My VP Emailed me for an explanation after the same explanation didn't please the complainer.His take was that all the effort I went through was proper and that my decision was reasonable----rick
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