E-TA152 for 2610 and 2548 at the NATS

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Lee Liddle
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E-TA152 for 2610 and 2548 at the NATS

Post by Lee Liddle »

Here`s my newest E-Warbird. It will fly in either 2610 or 2548. It has a pretty cheap motor that weighs quite a bit. The ESC is also cheap (cheaper than the motor, but it doesn`t weigh as much either, so that`s OK). It turns a medium sized prop pretty fast, and the whole plane weighs somewhere between 3lbs and 3.5lbs. It has a lot of batteries, and it`s pretty fast for the first 5 minutes or so.

note: Local officials made me erect the warning barrier before I could fly it at my private test facilities.

Image

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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

You never cease to amaze me Lee! Having your own flying field![:D]

Can't wait to see it fly. Keep it away from Cash!
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Cash won`t be able to catch this one. Can you say 90+.
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Uhhh....90+ in 2610, old son, if yer doing 90 in 2548 then I wanna see the tach readings..

[:p]
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

BTW....that's a pretty ship..nice work, buddy!![:D]
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Yep, in 2548 trim I`ll admit that it`s less than 90mph.[:D] It is a hit and run ship in either class though, not a dogfighter.

I hope the guy with the radar gun is at the fly-in Sunday. I`d like to get a reading on this thing. I think that it`s faster than my Open B ships. Seriously.[:p]
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Cool....!!
montague
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Post by montague »

Cool plane.

Is it me, or are the wings a little blocky? I ask because there's an on-going discussion around here about what is and isn't legal in 2548 as far as wing shape is concerned. At least one kit company is selling a "2548" plane with wing tips that are obviously enlarged over scale. I'm not that familliar with the TA-152, but the wing looks like it has more chord, espeically at the tip, than TA-512 models I've seen in the past. But the germans did build lots of variants of things, so is it a different varient than I'm familar with?
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Kirk, this is a TA 152H. Yes, the tip cord is wider than the exact ratio of root to tip would dictate. The camera makes it look like there is almost no taper in the wing at all. In fact there is a 40% taper from root to tip.

I think that you may be over-thinking the "how scale is scale enough" issue. The rules suggest a pretty relaxed "approval system" which starts out with the CD (who may have no scale knowledge to speak of) looking the planes over from 15 feet away. It`s the same for both 2610 and 2548. So I don`t really understand your concern with a slight enlargement of the tip cord. The rules also allow for additional deviation from scale to "improve flight characteristics". Wider tip cord would also fall into that category. Here is the exact wording.....
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">3.2.1 The Contest Director shall determine accuracy-of-scale by simple visual inspection at 15ft, and may, at his discretion, request from the pilot a 3-view drawing or photo, to help in determining scale fidelity. Minor modifications that improve flight characteristics will be allowed as long as those modifications do not alter the basic resemblance to the original aircraft. Aircraft are to be finished in prototypical or unit/squadron colors for that type of aircraft of the period. Unusual color schemes are allowed when supported with simple photograph, or drawing documentation supplied by the pilot of the aircraft. The burden of proof of scale fidelity shall reside solely with the pilot of the aircraft.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">


I`m going to fly 10 heats of 2610 this year, and that will be at the nats. If someone wants to challenge the wing, they are welcome to do so. If that happens though, we probably won`t be able to fly 2610 at the nats, because, I`m pretty sure that I could prove more than 10% deviation from scale on almost any 2610 plane entered. I think that we`d end up with fewer than 3 legal entries.

BTW, here`s what the plane looks like from 15 feet....

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montague
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Post by montague »

Lee,
Who said anything about challenging anything, and what's up with you these days? You really need to chill out a bit.

Frankly it wasn't the 2610 side of things that I was wondering about, in fact I don't think I mentioned that class at all in my question. But since you ask, you're welcome to take a ruler to my 2610 plane any time you want, no part of it is more than 10% off, and it's all either increased or at scale, so I didn't even take advantage of the +/-10% ruling. (to be specific, and working from memory, my Firebrands are +10% wing span and chord, +5-7% from the wing LE forward for CG reasons, scale from the TE to the end of the fuse. I think the fuse is roughly scale in cross section (within my ability to sand it that way). The vertical fin is only +5% because a +10% tail looked stupid on the scale fuse, and I think the horizontal is also about +5%. I am aware that some other guys aren't as picky about scale rules as I can be, but I'm just looking for a level playing field here is all.

I'm also aware that a camera will often distort wing taper, which is partly why I asked. In the first picture the wing almost looks constant-chord, which I knew it couldn't have been. But I wasn't sure what it really looked like.

As for "scale enough", it's 2548 that I'm wondering about. When that class was introduced, a lot of noise was made about how that class would be so much more scale than 2610 was, with some 2548 boosters calling the 2610 planes "cartoon scale". My 2548 designs (so far) are almost exactly 100% scale, with no increase in wing area or anything. I'm trying to find out if that is what others are doing, or how much modification people are making. After all, if I enlarge my wingtips, I could improve the performance quite a bit.

Has anyone else out there seen this plane? Honestly, how does it look in person? Has the RCCA, and especially the big 2548 boosters decided that enlarging wingtips and/or other parts of a 2548 plane is now ok? I was under the impression from before that it wasn't. If it is, I need to get to re-designing some things.

And maybe I just see better than most guys and can see things they can't. last time I was tested, I had roughly 20/15 vision, so I see at 20feet what "average" people see at 15. Maybe I should start looking at scale planes from 20 feet away? Does that picture really look "right" for a plane at 15 feet? It honestly looks farther away, like the camera wasn't at 100%. I'm not saying it wasn't, I'm wondering if I really need to adjust what I'm looking at.
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Post by Rabbit Leader »

Kirk, 2548 has NEVER been "exact scale" "precision scale" or anything close. About the only thing i can relate it to is "Stand-off Scale", which, at least a few years ago, was a model that looked like the prototype from about 15 feet away. A lot of planes that fit in that category are easily "fudged", but are still quite recognisable. Lee's TA152 is quite recognisable, yet i can tell where it's been altered a bit..it's still good. I personally feel that if I were the CD, and I can tell what yer flying by looking at it, and it just dosen't look <b><i>wrong</i></b>, totally out of proportion, and it's not painted candy-apple red, or metal-flake blue with a Corvette grille, than it works for me...
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Ed Kettler
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Post by Ed Kettler »

Well, I am amazed at what Lee demonstrated today with his Ta-152. He had two of them out at the Richardson club today for the Gas and Electric Fun Fly, and man, are they fast!!! They were taching at 22K plus on an 8x4, ran 6 minutes at almost full bore, and would be in the upper half of the 2610 pack for speed.

He won't be in the turn and burn type of fight, but he will be pouncing on unsuspecting streamers. Don't worry about him sneaking up on you, the prop screams!!!!
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Post by montague »

So, Ed, honestly, how did the plane's outline look? You've always been one of the harshest judges and loudest complainers about the scale outlines in 2610, does it really meet the goals you set out to achive when you started pushing 2548 so hard?

It still looks to me like it has performance enhancing modifications to the scale outline that are visible at 15 feet, and according to 2548 rules, that's a penalty plane or a DQ. I guess we'll vote on it at Nats, but I'd much rather know in advance how much I can get away with on my own planes. I really hate being at such a disadvantage because I followed the rules and other guys didn't quite so much and just aren't called on it.
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Post by montague »

Ah, here we go:

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Post by montague »

Notice how pronounced the wing taper is there in the 3-view? I sure do, it's very distinctive, and should be very visible at 15 feet.
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