Ole Geezer needs Electric help, Info..

What's a Watt? What's a Brushless? How many Watts are in a HorsePower? Help a clueless pilot out by posting your P=E*I Knowledge here!

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Ben Morrow
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Ole Geezer needs Electric help, Info..

Post by Ben Morrow »

While at the Jackson SSC contest I had my first chance to see the electric SSC planes perform and I must say I see in some cases an advantage to flying the quiet but fast birds in combat. SO, here come the questions. I may only get 2 to 3 contest per year, hoping for 2 in Jackson in the future and Michael getting one going here at Bon Aqua, who knows maybe two contest in Bon Aqua?? This way I'd have three to four contest a year and would be just about perfect for me.

So here goes, I may be going over to the "Dark Side" [:D]

Have you guys had time to get the bugs worked out yet and are there any legal points to using elec. that haven't been worked out? Can't afford to do the swap and then have something come up to outdate the items I've bought.

What I'd like is a list of everything needed + cost and if possible a part # for these parts for a fleet of 3 SSC combat ships.

Motors

Battery I guess 5 or 6 packs to have enough for an 8 round contest?

Charger, If I understood right it takes about an hour to charge safley. (Maybe charge a couple at once?)

Speed Controls

Prop Adapters ?? I guess you would need them?

Special connectors for hook up.

Anything I'm leaving out here?? I'm sure there's something..

Links to these items would be a HUGE help!

Thanks in advanve, Ben "I wanta win too" Morrow[:D]
jj
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Post by jj »

Ben,

tough to get a single list together as there is no current "best" set up that is universally agreed on. Lee Liddle is a guru on this stuff and I suggest checking out some of his posts.

On the other hand 3696 is a new class that is a blast and the setup for that is pretty cheap and well known. check out the Scale electric posts for that. You might like it as the planes look cool, fly about the same or better than SSC and are very easy to transport and fly. They also perform great.

Something to consider. You probably want a 40 amp speed controller and one that can handle more than 3 LiPo cells. RCHotDeals.com has some good bargains for that. You might be able to get a motor battery combination that works with 3 LiPo cells, but 4 cells is more of a sure thing. the number of cells and current draw will determine your battery capacity and how many C (discharge rate) you will need from those batteries. I've got a motor that will work for SSC but it has a 1/8th shaft so it might be prone to getting damaged. I think that Mega or some other mfg has a suitable SSC motor that has a 5mm shaft.

The problem I see with electric SSC is that you are forced to fly a specific prop at a specific RPM and you need to hunt for a motor / battery combo that will work for that. You can get better performance out of electrics if you use a different prop and rpm range, but SSC is fixed for a .15 engine spec, not a motor.

3696 was targeted towards electrics and cost effective combinations so it is an easier fit. there seems to be a movement from some IC fans to keep electric out of events like the nats as they fear some strange advantage that will happen for electrics in the future. So you might check to see if you will be able to fly your e-SSC at an event.
Ben Morrow
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Post by Ben Morrow »

Hey JJ,

Lee, Buttercup, Michael and I were side by side in the pits cut'n up in the pits and fight'n it out in the air.. I asked many questions and Lee gave me good solid answers, problem is I forget![:D]

There's no way I could have taken all that info in while checking planes and just get'n ready for the next heat "Against These Guys"[:D][:D]..

The planes were awesome I must say. I judged and Tached Lee in at least one heat and watched that tach read right at 17,400 STEADY I might add. Legal as far as I know.

Things I liked:

The sound. COOL!! (Testing Sat.)
RPM setting. (Easy no pinch, DEAD ON!)
Motor start. (Just push the stick up!)
No mess on the plane (Fuel, Oil)
Mid Air Dead Stick. (Pull/Push the throttle stick If your lucky and have time your Still in the air flying)

Things of concern:

COST [:D]
Not knowing enough about the E stuff.
Bent Shafts (Don't think that happened, but lots of string on shafts)
All the bugs being worked out.
And Legal, but I thought that had been worked out already.
And then Support Equipment..

They all flew a demo with the 3696 and your right, cool looking very sharp planes and QUICK! It's just that I'm just coming back and for now my only interest is in one class only SSC.

I think I'll just keep flying what I have for a while or until someone comes up with a system for folks with very little electric time under there belt or after a little more testing.

I was impressed though for sure and it got my interest going!

Thanks JJ!
Ben Morrow
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Post by Ben Morrow »

Heck,
I forgot, I could just e-mail ole "Buttercup" as he sat next to Lee for 12hrs. here then 12 back home!! He should know everything about electrics by now... Whatcha call a "Crash Course" I guess.[:D][:D][:D]

He said Lee wore that ear out!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
Lee Liddle
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Post by Lee Liddle »

Ben, after the NATS I`ll be glad to take the time to fill you in on what I`m using, but right now I just don`t have time. I will tell you this though. E-SSC is still in the X phase and is a big step past the park flyer types. Overall weight and durability of the airframe is a huge hurdle and you will fry some stuff on your way up the learning curve. There is also the matter of rules. At any time, anyone can propose rule changes to SSC that would outlaw electrics, or make them unable to compete. Until SSC becomes a rule book event there is no gaurentee that electrics will be legal in SSC six months from now, let alone for the next few years.

Drew Slam and I are still searching for the "right" setup, and things change often in the market. I`d say that it`s still too early for someone to switch to E if they want to be sure that stuff they buy will hold up long term or not get outlawed by people who don`t want E`s in SSC.
jj
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Post by jj »

Ben,

Glad you're gettin' back into this. The no muss, no fuss factor for electric is great. No wrries about fuel spills or complaints about smelly cars (I don't have a truck). The Triton charger is pretty nice.

IMHO there is not much of an issue if you focus on one class / combination like you are setting out to do. The issue is when you want to do multiple things as the batteries tend to be different.

If they come up with the "setup" I wouldn't mind getting a copy of that. SSC is still holdin' on up here in CO and while the new Magnum is a nice choice, with electrics you don't have the fuel / mixture issues that you get with high altitudes. We need to mess with high nitro to get to 17,5 up here and then figure out what to run when we go to lower altitudes.
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

Ben, unfortunately there is no perfect setup. Electrics always have some kind of shortcoming, especially when you are trying to match a nitro engine on a specific prop. On top of that there is a price limit on the motors, which drastically reduce the availbale options. Then there is the delicacy of the equipment to consider. Look at a lipo wrong and it will be useless. Speed controls are sentive to being over-amped. I had a set up I was quite happy with at Mid-America, and it preformed well, however, guess what, I am still trying to redesign to make it better. Like Lee said, someone may try to pass a rule to outlaw them, I doubt it would pass, but there is no sure fire way of knowing.

motor http://www.innov8tivedesigns.com/produc ... cts_id=117

Speed controller https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOB ... oduct=2165

And I use emoli cells out of Millwakee 28V battery packs
jj
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Post by jj »

Drew, Lee, Ben,

That is one of the great things about 3696. Born to be electrifying right from the start with good, reliable cheap components already identified.

my brother Vic has been taking his 3696 P51 along with him on flights (he's a professional pilot) and has flown it while waiting around at various airports. He has met with quite a few R/C pilots and they all love the performance and convenience of the 3696 planes. Only downside is lack of kits. I may need to make a few more if the interest level stays this great.
Ben Morrow
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Post by Ben Morrow »

JJ, Drew, Lee,

First off thanks for the advice!
Qoute by Lee: Ben, after the NATS I`ll be glad to take the time to fill you in on what I`m using, but right now I just don`t have time.

No worries Lee, I know you'll help... Durability, no problem, I know a Texan that sells good kits that are tested true!.

Drew, Cool links! Where do you guys find the winding wire? I've wound quite a few electrics in my time. Winding is not a problem (There's a few triks but nothing too bad) I'm surprised the motor kits don't come with the wire..

JJ, Good advice! I am surprised that the guys in "thin air country" don't fly more electrics in combat. I would think it would be a big help? In Jaskson I had to run 2 ozs. 10% + 2 ozs. FIA 0% just to keep my old ragged out, air leaking LA's at around 17,200. (Didn't have any 5%)

I'll not get into the legal stuff for RCCA right now as I've only flown one combat in three years and just don't know SQUAT! Have to leave that part up to all the others. All I'll say there is that I'd like to see electrics allowed.

Just looking for lots of fun (Like at the Jackson SSC meet) now days.. What a BLAST it was, been way too long!

"Bottoms Up"[;)]
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

I get my wire from a local electric surplus house. I am sure it can easily be found online as well. The reason they don't include the wire is you have so many choices. I ended up winding mine with 4 strands of #23 5 turns on each tooth. However I am now looking at a 4 cell option and am going to try a 7 turn motor to see if I can get the amps down a bit and not loose power near the end of the round.
Alex Treneff
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Post by Alex Treneff »

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by drewjet</i>
<br />I get my wire from a local electric surplus house. I am sure it can easily be found online as well. The reason they don't include the wire is you have so many choices. I ended up winding mine with 4 strands of #23 5 turns on each tooth. However I am now looking at a 4 cell option and am going to try a 7 turn motor to see if I can get the amps down a bit and not loose power near the end of the round.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Imagine a new guy trying to get into combat. I bet he has no clue about anything you're talking about Drew! I must say, the electrics sure served you well at the Mid-America meet though.
drewjet
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Post by drewjet »

All a new guy has to do is search here, or ask. I think any of us e guys are more than willing to help out. Heck I would even help you over to the dark side , Alex.
slam
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Post by slam »

ben, sorry it took so long to get back to you.

the only answer i can give you is "wait".

we are really looking for a good combination to suggest to the masses, but so far we haven't been "sold" on any combination we have tried.

let me rephrase that. we haven't been happy with any combination other than the first one we used, but unfortunately the mega motor comes in over $65 so we can't use it. the other motors we have been trying have come up short.

the motor we used at jackson has real potential, but without more testing we can't endorse it.

us electric ssc "pioneers" have gotten some static because of the argument we made while trying to get electrics into ssc rules. we stated that some newcomers would come into the combat community if we expanded to encompass electrics. they have said "where are all these new electric combatters?"

unfortunately, until we have a power system we can endorse, and complies with the price limit, you won't see any newcomers. it would be like saying, "come fly this new class newby, we can't suggest what kit to buy, or what motor to buy, but hurry up and fly with us".

drew has done an outstanding job researching power systems and i have been more than willing to buy in and stress test them (crash them). we'll let you know when we are comfortable with some suggestions.

so back to the first sentence..........keep sliming for now.

btw it was great pitting beside you. i'd forgotten what a pleasure it was to watch you fly and have fun doing it.

slam
Ben Morrow
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Post by Ben Morrow »

Qoute by "Slam'...
"us electric ssc "pioneers" have gotten some static because of the argument we made while trying to get electrics into ssc rules. we stated that some newcomers would come into the combat community if we expanded to encompass electrics. they have said "where are all these new electric combatters?"

Well Slam, It does take a little time for the "Pioneers" to get things worked out and all the little bugs worked out before the Newbies would even want to give it a try. (Just as in my case) Fact is after all these problems are worked out I would think it would bring in lots more! IC is still big, but lets face it the "Electrics" are coming on strong in any type of R/C it seems to me.....

Also seems to me that people should be thanking you guys for going through the exspence and effort to make things right for the rest of us...
Here's mine, Thank you!!!

I'll take your advice and wait.

Again, Thanks for the Time, Money and effort testing so that I (and others) can come in, fly electrons at a reasonable cost...

Quote by "Slam"..
"btw it was great pitting beside you. i'd forgotten what a pleasure it was to watch you fly and have fun doing it."

Thanks Slam, Great to see you guys again too, and man it was FUN for sure![:D] I had forgotten just how much fun it is to have a good time,shoot the bull with you guys and then try as HARD as you can to get your buddies ribbon!!![:D].. We'll do it again real soon I hope !!

Why aren't you at the NATS man??[:0] It's driving me crazy just reading about the guys going!!
slam
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Post by slam »

jackson was my nats this year. can't travel as much as i used to because life gets in the way. with all this testing and spending i have kinda got burned out. it's good to step back and be on the sidelines for a while.

maybe we'll see you at loganville in august.

slam
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