US/Canadian Combat Opportunities

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sgilkey
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US/Canadian Combat Opportunities

Post by sgilkey »

There used to be a thriving cross-border competition among US and Canadian combat pilots. This has completely dried up in the last few years. Can we reopen this? I'd like to try to discuss this in a positive fashion, without useless revisits of history, or taunting rants about how some folks are succeeding while others just don't get it. I'll delete such posts from any source, in an effort to keep this thread on-track.

We used to have vigorous competition in both 2610 and Open classes. Many Canadians did not like the way RCCA scale combat evolved with ever-increasing performance, and that's fine. They seem to prefer a slower class which for lack of a better word they would seem to describe as less "open B-like." Again, that's fine.

As to Open B, those who flew it seemed to like it just fine, but RCCA style combat with those kinds of fast planes meant midairs, and the MAAC must-land-after-midair rule pretty much scotched RCCA-style combat in Canada. Again, that's fine, that's their system, is there a way we can fly together within it?

I have a few thoughts. As to scale- I think the Canadians fly/like WWI scale, for which there is no US counterpart that I know of. I suppose if we were welcomed, some of us might consider building WWI-type planes and giving it a try. I know I would. I honestly don't know where to go to find out about the rules for such a class and where/when it's being flown, can anyone post links?

For WWII type, 2610 is DEAD in RCCA for now, maybe it will be reborn, who knows, but it's not even being flown at NATS. 2548 is slower, more scale-fidelic, and is much less "furball" and more "pursuit." I don't have hard data to back it up, but my perception is there are much fewer midairs. Brian's been flying the same two Zeros for three years and other than love taps I think he's only had one rough midair. The powerplants are reliable and low-tech and the planes are easy to build. There's lots of plane types that can be modeled. I would think for scale-type, this is a good class to consider for cross-border fun. Radio Control Club of Detroit tried 2548 meets but had minimal success, there's not a lot of enthusiasm for it in our area right now. But Bob Loescher is flying it at his Spring meet (in Lima, OH, within reach of a Canadian invasion) and maybe we could add it to the RCCD meets, esp. if there are Canadians who would like to try it and maybe host some meets "over there."

For Open, I would think either SSC or LImited B would be good candidates. They are slower, have power-limiting specs, are easy to build cheaply, and are relatively inexpensive. For me, I don't think we even necessarily have to stricly follow an RCCA class, just for NPS concerns. I'd rather have a few more meets with a slightly modified class (or classes) than have fewer meets that are NPS-eligible.

Another possibility is "club combat." IF some club has a spec class, I would certainly be interested in knowing the setup, maybe we could cobble something together to join in. At our local clubs, we fly a sorta-club-combat occasionaly, this just means we meet at the field with either "SSC" or "Limited B" (same power systems/props, but we dont' do formal rpm checks, weight checks, etc) and just toss up the planes when we can get the other fliers to take a break. Usually, I just end up going up as a "target tug" and guys can chase me. If I get cut, I land and tie another one on, while the other guys usually end up going after each other. We can use practice planes, beaters, old planes that are no longer "competitive" or front-line planes, anything is welcome. We don't keep score, it's all for smack-talking and fun and I think it's a hoot. Maybe we could formalize this a bit, reserve the field for a day perhaps, and fly some just-for-fun cross-border combat to get the juices flowing, and see where it goes. We could not keep score, just count cuts, or whatever.

I'm open for suggestions, anyone who has some constructive input and is truly interested in us flying together again, I'd like to hear your suggestions.
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

For a club combat plane that has little hope of being anything else but fun, the SPAD GNANT is hard to beat. It can cut it's own streamer and has a glide path like a rock. The guys on the other side of Lake Michigan have fun with them. The limited classes of B, 2548 and SSC are gaining popularity in the Midwest. Open B still dominates in the South and West. Which area is closer to Canada?[;)]
Jason Holdaway
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Post by Jason Holdaway »

The WWI combat rules are not official yet as they are still trying to figure out what is going to work the best. http://www.maac.ca/docs/2006/2008__maac ... mbat_b.pdf

I've watched video of these matches and they look like a whole lot of fun. More thought and pursuit instead of screaming through a fur ball. They also have some very nice looking coroplast models. There are a number of members in the MAAC combat forum that I'm sure would be happy to help. Some even put on build demos. If one of you guys want to attend one, I'll join you. I'd like to build one too.
Cross Check

Post by Cross Check »

Hi Scott, Bob and Jason,

You know those bright blue sunny days, a light breeze straight in towards the Pilot Line ?
You've checked fuel/streamer/start gear/Tx for the 3rd/4th time and try to relax by having some funny banter with the other pilots near you ?
The Line Marshal starts calling calling 'Pilots Ready' and your adrenaline level goes to 50% as you raise you hand as your 'nick'name is called?
It seems forever as they get the CompactDisk going as your adrenalin hits 75%... then START ENGINES! ?

Well, that is how I am feeling right now.

I'm going to soak my Gr9 typing hands because I have been using them allot lately, and soak my 50%HS English head with a beer while I re-read the previous posts...

What a Breath of Fresh Air ! ! !

Thanks ALLOT !

I am looking forward to this being a long and fruitful Topic...

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team
Cross Check

Post by Cross Check »

Hi All,

Some Life/Work stuff has come up and I will be busy the next few days...

Got time for some preliminary thoughts though:

Lets keep the focus on the common goal of tying on streamers on any type of model airplane, and have a laugh trying to cut/keep them.

Keep it lighthearted/jovial. Bob'Longhaul's "Which way do I turn to get to Canada?" is a perfect example ! (I look forward to meeting you Bob !)

Scott, I say we remember all the great previous Can/Am history and just focus on looking forward to even better times. The 'unfortunate circumstances' that happened might come up, and I think we should just call it(-hist) and leave it be, as part of painful learning experiences.

As far as I know, the MaacOpenCombat position is vacant and needs a leader. (I know someone who can fill the shoes, but I think he is busy wearing rubber boots fixing his flooded basement ! )

Here is some current state of the art Maac WW2:
http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=82294

And a sample of the performance level:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grXNjyeEi5U


The WW1 started just to use up our old engines when the OSFX.25 became affordable here. (got down to $90, unfortunately $120 recently) I thought it would wither quickly, but I was wrong.
The CoroExperts here are leading the way coming up with practical easybuild/durable/great performing designs. The 'Rules' so far are just guidelines and every Match/get together we learn more and more. When we get things 'just right' we will write up some 'formal' Rules.
Here is the video of the Nov08 Onslaught over Ontario WW1 which due to the weather conditions, technically was not a Match. We just flew the bags off them for 2hrs before lunch and then did 6 Rounds WW2 after:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJ6JJC3uLM
WW1 has got to be the most impractical/time consuming form of R/C Combat, and sane people think we are Nuts. Saying that, I'll be CD of Bloody April in Toronto the first good weather Sunday in Apr09 and I want to build a Vickers Gunbus http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww1/f/537/9/0/1 for it!

I just want to say that I am only one of the Maac Combat flyers here and in no way can I speak for them all. I think there should be very few problems, if any, repairing any -hist that happened. All we care about is to be able to get to the next Match, and, have a plane left for the last Round ! ! !

Oops...Gotta go, should be back within a week.

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team



Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team
draftman1
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Post by draftman1 »

Cross Check, I have been looking for the plans for the WW1 birds but I havnt found any. is there a site that has them? I have looked on the RCCanada site but maybe Im missing something eh!
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boiler
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Post by boiler »

As far as the first Sunday in April, I will still be in the booth at the Toledo show. The third Sunday I will be in Northern Wisconsin on a two day meet at Wingnut Acres. The best meet outside the NATS for SSC and Limited B. At this point I'm still open the other two Sundays.
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

don't have time to reply right now but all I can say is "ahhhhh"!!! I have no desire to look back other than to learn from our mistakes, and hope we can figure out a way to get back in the air to enjoy some more flying....
Jason Holdaway
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Location: Canada

Post by Jason Holdaway »

This is the best thread I've read in 2 years. Lets focus on the future!
Cross Check

Post by Cross Check »

Hi All,
My trip has been delayed with problems on the other end...
So... in order:

Andy, There are no published WW1 plans yet, because we are 'tweaking' them every Match to get them simple and relatively even performing.(and encourage a variety of WW1 subjects)
In the video they look too fast and agile. That is due to the just below freezing temperatures that day. In shorts/T-shirt weather, they barely can loop from straight and level flight. (WW1 is frigging weird, it seems like 1/2hr just to line up a cut !)
Basic parameters so far are: OSFX.25 or equal 4stroke/other power. Min 44in span biplanes with 1in thick wings. Weights are are around 4.5lbs. A run of SE5 and D-7s are going into 'coro production' and will probably be the 'basis' of any 'Rules' we come up with. I am sure we will share worldwide when we get things 'figured out'. Did I mention you have to be crazy to fly WW1 Combat ? HeHeHe

Bob, I've got an Albatross with your name on it for you to fly. I'll arrange an East Toronto .15 'one design' demo too. You have got to meet our 'mild mannered Superman' Maac ScaleCombat chairman Ted'Dogfight'. He flew at the US Nats back when 2610 was getting started. Let's hope the weather Gods co-operate...

Scott, You have no idea how mad/frustrated I have been about the -hist. I have only the best memories of those old Matches. I Respect you Allot. I'll respect you even more if you can get your Kids trained at pit/ground support so I can fly with you again and see who gets furthest from Last Place ! HeHeHe

Jason, I could not agree more. The internet can be a wonderful thing. And you are a master at it.

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team
draftman1
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:36 am

Post by draftman1 »

Ok CC, are there any build picts anywhere? Im kindive an innovative guy, I can figure things out by picts. those would be cool with 4 strokes on them.
Cross Check

Post by Cross Check »

Hi Andy,

This is the best one I know of:
http://www.rccanada.ca/rccforum/showthread.php?t=75593

You got to keep the tail light and stuff all the gear as far fwd as possible, otherwise you're hauling noseweight and they turn into pigs.

.40FSs are really nice and get throttled back to stay even with an OSFX.25 swinging a 10-3/10-4

Take care,
Have fun,
Dave'crosscheck'Fallowfield
Maac 6437
Unabashed Combat Team
draftman1
Posts: 367
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:36 am

Post by draftman1 »

CC, so the fuse is 2mm with some 4 mmm stiffiners up front? that is a great idea. I basicly build coro planes only, even for my regular planes so this will be pretty easy, thanks
sgilkey
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Post by sgilkey »

sorry guys, I'm a little thick so I need some help. What exactly is being flown actively up there? I looked at the rules link Patch posted and I see WWII 1/12 scale that looks a lot like 2610, is that being flown? Or is it mostly WWI? Any kind of open, even club combat? That link Keith posted showed open-style (but not RCCA Open B style) planes. Thanks.

I'm not a real keen builder, in case you haven't noticed. the thought of three (even two) wings, cabanes, interplane struts, makes my bald spot grow even bigger. any monoplane designs that are competitive?
Jason Holdaway
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Location: Canada

Post by Jason Holdaway »

I think a well.......the best way I can say it...."controlled" 2610 is what is mostly flown. Seeing what happened to 2610 in the US, I don't think that is such a bad thing after all. I think it could be better, but on the right track. I don't think monoplanes are allowed in WWI combat, and I think that is good because the concept was for flying biplanes. I'd like to see Open B and SSC take off here. How is this for an idea?....a category that only allows say 5 different predetermined planes (mustang, zero, 109, 190, spitfire) simple rules, fairly close wingspans and no arguments!
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