Trying Out E-SSC

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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

OK, cool.
I see your signed up for the Freestate event. That's my club so I'll be there. At some point I guess we can do some show n tell.
I'm flying both nitro and Electric. This is my first event doing Nitro SSC. I'll be there early but will be test flying 2 (hopefully) completed 2548 planes.
Still finishing the build up. Hope to test fly some on friday. Our field has a NO FLY- NOTAM/TFR from 10:00AM-12:30Pm tomorrow so hopefully I can get it done before I go to work.

-David
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

I just finished up my 6-Cell version and test ran it. It's getting dark a little too early for a test flight. I didn't change the settings on the ESC and it worked just fine. Held 17.5K all the way for 6 minutes straight. I'm still liking the 4-Cell setup because of less wires all over the place.

Here is the graph for my test run:
6-Cell Data.jpg
6-Cell Data.jpg (74.12 KiB) Viewed 13611 times
William "Dominator" Drumm III
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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

I've been wanting to do some test flights w/ my eagletree but never got to it. I'm curious to see how much unloading the electric does in the air. I do know static testing shows I'll finish the flight less than 17K, but it should unload some in the air (but not like a nitro)
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

I got around to testing out the Nano-Tech batteries today. I was having issues with maintaining the RPMs. I tried standard LiPo batteries and had the same problem. The Nanos were not as bad, but still not like my initial testing with the standard LiPos. I was only getting about 2 minutes at 17,500.

After scratching my head for a while, I realized that when I hooked up my ESC (ICE 50 Lite - no heat sink) with Castle Link, it said that there was an update (v3.26 Beta) for my ESC. I thought “why not” at the time and updated the firmware. But the version on my initial ESC (ICE 50 - with heat sink) I was using was v3.2. I downgraded back to v3.2 and it held RPMs for 3 minutes and ended up at 17,150 at the 5 minute mark.

Okay. It still was not holding for 4.5 minutes like my initial testing. What gives? I went back and looked at the forum and silly me, :oops: my initial testing was in the air. Slapped on the first ESC (ICE 50) I bought and yup, static testing only holds for 3 minutes or so. I ended up putting back in around 2,000 mAh each time vs the 1800-1900 in the air. That should have been a clue, too. :roll:

As expected, the Nanos do hold RPMs a little longer and end up with a slightly higher RPM. I still have to test fly them to see if they will hold for the entire flight. Hopefully, the weather will be good next weekend.
William "Dominator" Drumm III
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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

One of the things the ICE measures is throttle %. The closer you get to 100, the worse it will regulate.
As the battery drops, the throttle % of course increases. Next time you fly it, take a look at that on your chart.
Good Luck.

I still have not repaired my SSC/2548 fleet since the last contest in nov.
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

After being thoroughly tested down in Florida, I think I can make this design work. Only design change is to strengthen the motor mount. I shed 2 motors in flight and a third was completely flattened out. I think they weren’t hit directly, but centrifugal force caused them to snap off when jerked around in the midair. I was using 1/16” aluminum angle from Menards. Now I am going to be using 1/8” 6061-T6 structural angle. If that doesn’t hold up, I have some 3/16” structural. Keep going bigger till it don’t break. :roll:

The wings did exactly what I thought they would do in a midair. They broke at the weakest point, the battery cutout. The wings are sort of disposable, as they aren’t armored heavily. So this is not an issue for me. I love my CNC foam cutter. :mrgreen:

The data logs showed that for the 2 of 3 flights that I fully flew, I ended up turning around 17,350 to 17,450. The third one was around 17,200 and I believe that flight was when I landed with streamer around the prop. Makes sense, as the data showed I was pulling a couple of more amps towards the end. Chris noticed that I was dogging a little that round. Streamer around the prop and a load on my wings will do that. :P

I think this setup is the way to go, as it maintains a pretty constant rpm level. I did find out that sandy soil and electric motors don’t go well together. :shock:

Now I can't wait till my order from Hobby King comes in to try out E-Lim B. 8)
William "Dominator" Drumm III
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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

Have you had any chance to look at less expensive ESCs than an ICE that will govern?
Did the ESC always survive your mid airs where say the prop on the Electric motor broke on impact?

Until I switched to the 50/60A hobbyking SS esc, my 40A plush or Volcano ESCs would toast 50% of the time on a midair where my prop hit the other plane.
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

I haven't found a cheap ESC that does what the ICE does. It's sure nice to set and forget.

They should have survived the midairs. The ICE has a current limiter which I have set to very sensitive (50 amps). I haven't got around to fixing them up yet to see for sure.
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Big Dog
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by Big Dog »

Will I am currently working on the ESSC version of Zapdos. But I thought I would comment on your motor mount issue. There has to be a weak link or you will start busting things further back, Though I agree that your mount may be a bit weak now be wary of over engineering that you will rip or bust the airframe next. BTW I bought a couple of Hobby city K40 esc's to try let you know how that goes
Craig Buttery
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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

The texasflugwerks falcon had a bendable mount. It would bend in a crash. sometimes I'd have to do it after the contest. Once I bent it in a midair and it gave me a nasty UP THRUST.

I can see how if you had the weight on the wing and little on the fuse, that in a midair, the wing should push foward and give and yeild less damage to the motor.
I'm too much of a cheap son of a gun to spend $80 on an ESC for each plane. I'd like to see (and maybe end up spending more than $80 per plane) if there's another way to do this and mimic more of the unloading effect of a Nitro.
I'm going to experiment with a home brew attachement to the front end of an ESC. It will regulate the current draw into an ESC.
I'm hoping I can govern the current draw into the motor and thus maintain 17,500 at the beginning of the flight and maybe about 17,300 at the end.
But as the prop reduces load in the air, the RPMS should increase in the air more like a Nitro.
I wish I had data from a Nitro to know how much a .15 with a 8x3 prop on an SSC unloads in the air.
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

Big Dog wrote:There has to be a weak link or you will start busting things further back, Though I agree that your mount may be a bit weak now be wary of over engineering that you will rip or bust the airframe next.
I am not worried about wrecking anything further back. The wing is free to slide around and then return to close to neutral. The fuse held up fine with the nitro motors mounted solidly. The aluminum U fuse would bend if T-boned or if it went straight in after a midair. At home, I would straighten them out, or at least make the incidences 0.

dditch wrote:I'm going to experiment with a home brew attachement to the front end of an ESC. It will regulate the current draw into an ESC.
I'm hoping I can govern the current draw into the motor and thus maintain 17,500 at the beginning of the flight and maybe about 17,300 at the end.
But as the prop reduces load in the air, the RPMS should increase in the air more like a Nitro.
I wish I had data from a Nitro to know how much a .15 with a 8x3 prop on an SSC unloads in the air.
If you could keep the voltage from the battery to the ESC at a set voltage, that could work. Don't know how to do that. I'm a plug and play electrician. :D
William "Dominator" Drumm III
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rch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by rch »

In researching the options for introducing some "combat" flying in our club this summer I've been reading a number of threads here and on Wattflyer. It's been a great education, and it is leading me to believe that the E-SSC route with a Battle Axe type plane will be the simplest way to get our folks into the air. The plan is to build a bunch of "club" airframes so that everyone can participate.

Considering the context of this thread I suspect that you folks might be able to answer a question or two.

On both forums the Turnigy 35-30-1100 powered by a 6s battery (or 2x 3s) seems to be a popular option (Dane McGee and dditch were a couple who mentioned this combo as I recall). But here's my problem. I'm confused by the specs listed for this motor on HK as "Input Voltage : 7.4V~11.1V (2~3S Li-po)". However, I've seen a number of folks saying that they are using 5s and 6s batteries to get the higher RPM and having good results. Am I right in assuming that the HK spec is not exactly accurate, or am I missing something? Some of the other brands that I've dug up seem to have the same recommended voltage range also.

I just happen to have one of these motors that I was testing for another application so it would be a great choice for me. Anything that you can add would be appreciated.

I might add that you guys are already costing me some bucks. As a techy type myself, with all those fancy performance charts you've posted above I have no doubt that a Castle Creations ICE or two will be on my bench in short order. <G>

Rick...
midair02
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by midair02 »

rch wrote: On both forums the Turnigy 35-30-1100 powered by a 6s battery (or 2x 3s) seems to be a popular option (Dane McGee and dditch were a couple who mentioned this combo as I recall). But here's my problem. I'm confused by the specs listed for this motor on HK as "Input Voltage : 7.4V~11.1V (2~3S Li-po)". However, I've seen a number of folks saying that they are using 5s and 6s batteries to get the higher RPM and having good results. Am I right in assuming that the HK spec is not exactly accurate, or am I missing something? Some of the other brands that I've dug up seem to have the same recommended voltage range also.

Rick...

Rick,

I had the same head scratching question in this forum post. Watts is what matters.

http://rccombat.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=13466

Good luck in getting combat going. Having the same setup for everyone keeps it fair for everyone. What club are trying to get into combat?

The ICE is definately a wonderful ESC for doing research and works well for SSC.
William "Dominator" Drumm III
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dditch
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by dditch »

Like he says, Look at peak Watts. It will unload 10% in the air as well.
In my head scratching days, I inquired about using bigger batteries and many people said the same thing. Look at Watts.
motor manufacturers spec the motor for the masses. We are on the out skirts of RC here I guess.

Have you look at smaller electric?
I for example have been looking to see if I could find small electric streamer combat standard. Is there one?
Maybe small EPP or Deporon Foamies with 3S 2200mAh batteries as the standard. I have see videos of small groups of people regionally pick a kit then fly it locally.

After going through adapting a Battle axe to electric, then the texasflugwerks plane, I think that EASY is actually a Nitro battle axe.
The Texas Flugwerks is designed for Electric so it's easier than a Battle axe, but I personally don't like batteries in the wings. I like them protected.
http://texasflugwerks.com/products.html
(I did it with the elevator to make it an eCobra cause it's easier to balance the CG with an elevator).
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Big Dog
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Re: Trying Out E-SSC

Post by Big Dog »

What kind of AUW are you getting ??? I just finished my new prototype and am unhappy at 46oz with a 2650 4s...The same airframe in IC I have to add 1/2 oz of lead to get to 40.
Craig Buttery
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